1" Horn Flares - educate me! |
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stevie
Registered User Joined: 16 March 2008 Location: Dorchester Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Posted: 29 November 2012 at 2:46pm |
I'm about to complete a design for a 12" + 1" compression driver (both Celestion) and currently have a DAS BC-1 horn in the box. The horn is not bad but I'm thinking there might be something better available. By 'better', I mean a smoother frequency response and a more natural sound.
The last time I tested a bunch of 1" horns was about 15 years ago. I hear the technology has moved on a bit since then. I'm particularly intrigued by the JBL Econowave-type horns, which are very inexpensive. The only way I can try one of these is to buy one - so I thought I'd canvass opinions first. I need a CD 90 x 40 (ideally), 12" wide (approx.) and ideally with a screw connection to suit my compression drivers (are adapters 'bad'?). Crossover is 4th order at 1k6. |
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b grade
Young Croc Joined: 05 October 2012 Location: Portland OR USA Status: Offline Points: 1337 |
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I use a selenium HM25-25. Its dispersion is 90 by 60 though. It works for my needs if I put it up high and angle it down so I don't lose too much sound to the sky with the extra vertical dispersion. Cheap, but solid and it sounds pretty good.
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stevie
Registered User Joined: 16 March 2008 Location: Dorchester Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Thanks b grade, but that's an exponential horn and I really need a constant directivity-style response. The speakers are going to be used on their own most of the time as a band PA.
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b grade
Young Croc Joined: 05 October 2012 Location: Portland OR USA Status: Offline Points: 1337 |
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oops. did not see the CD.
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stevie
Registered User Joined: 16 March 2008 Location: Dorchester Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Has anyone used the JBL Progressive Transition waveguides? Are they an improvement on older CD horns? They're available at very low cost in the States but can you get them in the UK?
Edited by stevie - 07 December 2012 at 9:48pm |
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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That DAS waveguide doesn't look all that bad. I can't see anything significantly better in 1" screw-on.
Are you applying corrective EQ for the constant directivity? 6dB/oct high shelf. Exact frequency and gain depends on the horn and compression driver but I wouldn't be surprised to see something like 8kHz and +6dB. If you're not applying this correction then you are probably getting a lot of upper midrange and not much of the top end 'sparkle'. |
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stevie
Registered User Joined: 16 March 2008 Location: Dorchester Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Cheers, ceharden. Maybe it's a mismatch between the compression driver and the horn, but the frequency response I'm starting off with isn't very pretty (not just the HF rolloff, which is not normally a problem). I've used various methods of correcting this and at one stage had two notch filters in the circuit, which is ridiculous. I would prefer a horn that gives me a smoother response.
After two weeks of fiddling with the x-over I seem to have got something that works. The only downside is that the electrical phase rises to around 70 degrees at 2kHz. Do you think it will matter? Edit: the crossover is passive. Edited by stevie - 08 December 2012 at 11:11am |
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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Do you have any plots etc you can post of the raw response so I can try to understand what problems you're having? Which compression driver are you using and have you experimented with any other compression drivers or horn flares?
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audiomik
Old Croc Joined: 06 April 2010 Location: Bath, UK Status: Offline Points: 2962 |
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Re: "The only downside is that the electrical phase rises to around 70 degrees at 2kHz. Do you think it will matter?"
Can you be more specific on this please? Mik |
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Warning! May contain Nuts
plus springs, washers, screws, etc, etc. |
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stevie
Registered User Joined: 16 March 2008 Location: Dorchester Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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I'll post some measurements as soon as I can.
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stevie
Registered User Joined: 16 March 2008 Location: Dorchester Status: Offline Points: 425 |
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Here are the measurements. The frequency response curve is unsmoothed and the sharp dips above 6K are probably grille artefacts. Ignore anything below 200Hz. Drivers are a 4-ohm Celestion TN1230 and a CDX-1 1731 compression driver.
The electrical phase is shown in the impedance curve. What I'm concerned about is the swing to about 70 degrees between 2 and 3kHz, which I believe amplifiers might not like. What say ye? Edited by stevie - 10 December 2012 at 1:06pm |
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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I'm not really seeing anything to worry about, in fact your response actually looks pretty good. Are you using a Zobel network on the 12" driver? Might be worth considering if not to counteract the increase in driver impedance with frequency.
What's causing the impedance peak at just over 5kHz, too high for the resonance of the HF driver surely? |
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