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3 way horn loaded mid top

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citizensc View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote citizensc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2016 at 12:25am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

TBH, I don't rate Xtro at all, primarily because 8" & 1" Sections are woefully inadequate, compared to 15" Section.

OP wants all in one mid cab.

15"+8"+1" is one route, 2x12"+2" is another route, with probably higher SPL overall.

You would be surprised what cab loaded with 2x Fane 12MBs & Beyma CP750TI can do.
Simple build, smooth sound, very decent SPL.


Are you talking about the wood horn or the xt8? Our xt8s have no problem keeping up with the kick section. Pl236 powering kicks, plx2402 powering 8pe21.


Also im pretty sure the 12mb went out of production a couple of months ago. Afik they still make the mbn.
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kevinmcdonough View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2016 at 10:39pm
hey

been mentioned before on here, but this is the absolute best DIY speaker that is available to build just now. 


2x12 ported horn for mids, crossing over to BMS coax. Everyone that's heard it says it blows away other DIY cabs and many pro ones as well. 

I fully intend to build a pair once I have time 

K

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 5:08am
I have plans for the 60 degree version if anybody wants them but I fully recommend reading both the 90 and 60 degree threads in whole. Especially regarding the best results coming from FIR filter usage, either a Lake or Powersoft DSP amp are your best bets there.

It isn't cheap, the horn, BMS coax and drivers alone run near a grand even at trade but the results are excellent. I actually know of four in the UK, ending up near you soon Kevin, but the owner wants to keep shush for now




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osse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 10:17am
Are there any combo of 2x12" BR + CD horn that can deliver that nice airy snap that I think citizensc refers to when talking about 8" and horn on xylophone and percyssion and such? I very much like that

That is something I've never heard from a 2 way cabinet but technology has come a long way regarding drivers.

My dream top cab would be simple build 2 way with steep rolloff at 100, not mule kicking in the face but nice airy snap as described above and smooth top without ear fatigue for heavy techno, is this possible? :)

I listened to a few danley synergy horns the other day and the small area generating sound drove me crazy, it sounded like a much smaller speaker than it actually was. Sad because I thought synergy would take away my hunger for the perfect top with a smooth sound and huge soundstage

Edited by osse - 23 November 2016 at 10:18am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 11:25am
What did you hear? The whole box frontal area generates sound, it's a conical horn in effect – but sometimes the upper range feels a little 'back in the box' unless a small bit of EQ is used to bring it forward. You get the same effect on a lot of line array boxes too pre-EQ…

Edited by toastyghost - 23 November 2016 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by osse osse wrote:


I listened to a few danley synergy horns the other day and the small area generating sound drove me crazy, it sounded like a much smaller speaker than it actually was. Sad because I thought synergy would take away my hunger for the perfect top with a smooth sound and huge soundstage

not sure what you mean here. were you listening to a stereo system. sound stage is influenced by processing and not just the speakers. synergy horns are point source and constant directivity so should give excellent stereo imaging if fed the right signal.
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osse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 3:08pm
Originally posted by snowflake snowflake wrote:

Originally posted by osse osse wrote:


I listened to a few danley synergy horns the other day and the small area generating sound drove me crazy, it sounded like a much smaller speaker than it actually was. Sad because I thought synergy would take away my hunger for the perfect top with a smooth sound and huge soundstage

not sure what you mean here. were you listening to a stereo system. sound stage is influenced by processing and not just the speakers. synergy horns are point source and constant directivity so should give excellent stereo imaging if fed the right signal.

Thank you for pointing that out, it was a mono configuration and I was not responsible for any set-up so something could have been bad in processing or such. I would like to have listened to a proper stereo set up to get a picture of the sound stage with two speakers properly set up.

I like when a speaker sound bigger than it actually is, but a properly set-up stereo pair of good synergy horns might exceed in creating a huge soundstage?

I would like to build a pair of Art Welters Syntripps but I'm a bit hesitant due to this experience with the DSL ones.

Btw, can you tell me the difference between polar response, directivity and dispersion? Thanks


Edited by osse - 23 November 2016 at 3:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 8:54pm
Which horns were they? Some of the smaller or moulded cabinets use a synergy crossover network but not necessarily the full integration of drivers in the horn. They still sound great but the SH50 or 60 / SH96 and J2 are the real hifi boxes in the range.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mstep77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2016 at 10:50pm
I think making a 3 way horn loaded (or four way) DIY top is an extremely hard thing to get right and it will ultimately cost a fortune in drivers/amps/processing and time spent getting in right. If you're on a budget, then as described above decent drivers in a reflex cab with a good comp driver above could fit the bill. The other major problem with horn loaded tops is the dispersion can start to get very narrow in the upper frequency band of the mid and top drivers. And therefore you start to need at least 2/3 boxes per side not a pair.

Also trying to get a 15 inch on a folded horn to go above 200hz and sound nice is basically impossible unless you start investing a lot of time into phase plugs. The solution could be to mount the 8/10 inch on a horn which is a fair bit longer than the blue aran or limmer ones in order to keep it loaded down to 200hz but this would mean your box starts to get very deep.
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osse View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote osse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2016 at 5:48am
Originally posted by toastyghost toastyghost wrote:

Which horns were they? Some of the smaller or moulded cabinets use a synergy crossover network but not necessarily the full integration of drivers in the horn. They still sound great but the SH50 or 60 / SH96 and J2 are the real hifi boxes in the range.


It was the sh50 or sh60, and another smaller one(not molded horn iirc) I can't seem to find on their website now.

Edited by osse - 24 November 2016 at 5:58am
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Andy Kos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andy Kos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2016 at 8:43am
Originally posted by mstep77 mstep77 wrote:

I think making a 3 way horn loaded (or four way) DIY top is an extremely hard thing to get right and it will ultimately cost a fortune in drivers/amps/processing and time spent getting in right. If you're on a budget, then as described above decent drivers in a reflex cab with a good comp driver above could fit the bill. The other major problem with horn loaded tops is the dispersion can start to get very narrow in the upper frequency band of the mid and top drivers. And therefore you start to need at least 2/3 boxes per side not a pair.

Also trying to get a 15 inch on a folded horn to go above 200hz and sound nice is basically impossible unless you start investing a lot of time into phase plugs. The solution could be to mount the 8/10 inch on a horn which is a fair bit longer than the blue aran or limmer ones in order to keep it loaded down to 200hz but this would mean your box starts to get very deep.

This is why we came up with the solution we did, a direct radiating 15" wont be quite as efficient, but if you get a high power 15" that will more or less make up for it - this means you can keep the box much smaller. High Power 15" arent that hard to find, and amp power is cheaper than it used to be.
just a guy with a warehouse and a few speakers... www.bluearan.co.uk
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bass*en*mass View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass*en*mass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 January 2017 at 8:48pm
kyle, would you mind to share your honest opinions on those peter morris cabs?
specially driven hard..
a pitty they have not been ready whilst i was round yours last year..

looking for high power 3/4 way tops the new lambda labs qx seems well worth a listen :)
Danley J2 is another cab that seems interesting, aswell as the kv2 vhd5.0

Seems point source is comming back recently?



Edited by bass*en*mass - 19 January 2017 at 9:28pm
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