Amp headroom |
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IainB
Registered User Joined: 25 November 2016 Location: Rushden Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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Posted: 23 March 2017 at 9:25pm |
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Is it possible to have too much headroom on an Amp?
I have a choice of amps to drive my tops next weekend (all bargain basement compared with everything on here) the newest (and still in its box) being a Pulse APB2100 bought when CPC had them on offer. Im going to be running 2 Ohm RW3s on each side, so with each box being 8ohm 300w Continuous 600w Programme, the amp will be seeing a 4ohm load with the limiter set for (as I understand Peavey logic) at 600w (though now Ive typed that... that doesnt seem correct, but it appears to be the 'correct' setting for the VSX). Anyway... if im using limiters, can I run the APB at 1050w at 4 ohms a side or is it much much safer for me to run the Matrix 1300 at 650w at 4 ohm (again using the limiters) Thanks for any assistance on yet another of my stupid questions
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Conanski
Old Croc Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2537 |
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Any amp output above the point of limiting won't get used... in theory.. no limiter is a perfect brick wall, but generally there is no benefit to carrying a LOT more power than you need unless of course the bigger amp just happens to sound much better than the other options.
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TMH Music
Young Croc Joined: 07 April 2011 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 637 |
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What are you going to play through these speakers i.e. live sound or DJ? Are you going to be using subs or just the 4 RW3s? Personally, I would go with APB2100, but set limiters according to type of playback signal. If you're putting highly compressed DJ through them, then set limiters for 600w a side. If it's live sound/band, then set limiters to prevent clipping. Don't forget to set a reasonable HPF, too.
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Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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for me, bigger is better with amps. Limiters are to be viewed with caution, as in the vast majority of cases they can increase the duty cycle given to your voice coils by reducing dynamic range - so can cause drivers to get hotter.
A HPF is sensible, and don't over-estimate the capabilities of your cabs here as reflex boxes effectively unload the driver below the tuning frequency.
If you are playing on your own rig the use your ears and common sense and you shouldn't go too far wrong. With decent kit my yardstick has always been if it sounds happy it probably is - i honestly cant remember the last time i burnt a driver out when i was in control of a rig. |
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“The fact is this is about identifying what we do best and finding more ways of doing less of it better”
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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No. Personally. We use the same amps for everything basically, it's more flexible and with HF dynamics you want as much as possible. It's not uncommon for us to hang 60w drivers off a 2000w amp channel.
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IainB
Registered User Joined: 25 November 2016 Location: Rushden Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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Thanks everyone and again, apologies for the idiotic questions. Many years ago when I was gigging it was 'plug and play' then when I went into clubs I was DJing on the installed gear so now Im restarting things have got more interesting.
So this will be for DJing, running off CDs & MP3, though will also drag out the vinyl for retro nights (next Saturday is a 90s classics night, so House, Garage, RnB) This is my bigger rig, will have the DC600s underneath crossing at 40-100 with the RW3s from 100-18000 (bigger as in biggest I have currently, smallest would be a single set of RW3s going out, nothing compared to what some people have but if things take off for the nights im running I can see me having to scale up) wont be running at full chat, but want it to sound professional as far as I can, the whole essence being to bring back the good old days into a nice function room Thanks again for taking the time out to answer
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5174 |
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Both amplifiers can destroy your loudspeakers. If you are conscientious about distortion, the smaller amplifier will alert you to reduce the levels when the amplifier is clipping. Using a limiter on the larger amplifier will just allow you to lower the chances of destroying a speaker. However, using a limiter on a larger amplifier cannot prevent the loudspeaker from exceeding its limitations despite the signal is undistorted. If one chooses to maintain a constant level of limiting on a long-term basis using a very large amplifier eventually, the loudspeaker will get destroyed because the voice coil overheats to the point of burning. Many are foolhardy in believing limiters can prevent their loudspeakers from becoming damaged. Limiters only prevent peaks exceeding a certain level however, the average levels can/will reach to the limiter's peak limits if you push the fader high enough. This is not the limiter's fault for it is doing its job… preventing peak overshoot. What is written above is precisely why many damage their loudspeakers despite the amplifier was not clipping with the limiter engaged. Headroom is good for short durations however, if you are going to limit the power of the larger amplifier to the power of your smaller amplifier, you might as well just carry your smaller amplifier. At least it gives you a sign (distortion) when you are exceeding its limits. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 23 March 2017 at 11:35pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10919 |
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Or you can use a proper limiter setup with different Peak, RMS, and current / voltage limiting?
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5174 |
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Not all limiters offer that feature. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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fatfreddiescat
Young Croc Joined: 15 October 2010 Location: N.E.Wales Status: Online Points: 1082 |
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A good read about loudspeaker protection:
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IainB
Registered User Joined: 25 November 2016 Location: Rushden Status: Offline Points: 422 |
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If/when I expand, im going to do a LOT more research before buying anything else as I dont want to get caught out again. A LMS that is actually supported would be a good start
Mind blown again, just when I think I have a grasp of this I read something else and I can hear my brain going.... nope. SO much to learn if I want to do this properly, take my hat off to all of you who understand this inside out and thank you to all for helping me
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I-shen Soundboy
Registered User Joined: 21 December 2016 Location: Big Smoke Status: Offline Points: 375 |
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Sound engineering is one of the black arts, the work of Satan and all his little wizards...
Like any magic, it's just a case of raising understanding until it becomes science and loses the mumbo jumbo. 🔊 |
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