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keilamym View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote keilamym Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: AMP selection help
    Posted: 28 September 2014 at 3:02am
Im replacing 2 QSC 5050s that run Sub duty.. (They push 8 B&C 18tbx100 in scoops)... I'm looking to reduce weight and gain more power...  My first impression is to get the PL380 but I've been hearing so much recent chatter about the IPR2 7500... Now Im not a Peavey fan but for the price of 1 PL380, you could get 2 or 3 IPR... 

With that said, "in your opinion", would it make sense to spend the extra money and get the 2 PL380s, or are the IPR2 7500 pretty good amps?

Or should I be looking at a different brand all together... Powersoft and Labs are out of my price range...

Thanks... All helpful comments are appreciated.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rish Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 September 2014 at 7:38am
Speak to bee about the SAE amps. Very good amps from a price point of view.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 12:09am
From the B&C Website you will see the TBX100 has a requirement for 2400W at 8 Ohms to drive it properly:

http://www.bcspeakers.com/products/lf-driver/18-0/18tbx100

And that's at 8 ohms ... so look for an amp that can do about 4800W at 4 ohms, per channel if you want to drive those cabs to their potential.

The PL380 and the IPR are good amps, but way underpowered for the boxes. Look out for a good 10K in my opinion and you will drive those boxes to their potential. Any less and you are moving a lot of woodwork around that not really being driven properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 12:17am
Robin, that might be true about what BC claim. But how long will those drivers last driven with 2400W each all the time, that is another question. I am not a big fun of giving the drivers full program power.
This is mainly because manufacturers state the program power having 6 db crest factor on mind as in a perfect world. Todays music has barely 3db dynamic. Too compressed. That changes power handling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 12:19am
The 2400w into one tbx on dub duty(scoops so i presume) is debatable and could quickly go wrong Smile.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 1:42am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Robin, that might be true about what BC claim. But how long will those drivers last driven with 2400W each all the time, that is another question. I am not a big fun of giving the drivers full program power.
This is mainly because manufacturers state the program power having 6 db crest factor on mind as in a perfect world. Todays music has barely 3db dynamic. Too compressed. That changes power handling.

+1  There is too much hype about you must run 2xRMS into your drivers etc etc.  Especially if you factor in power compression, in a lot of cases you're throwing a lot of extra power at the drivers without really getting much benefit.  I far prefer to run my drivers well within their limits, avoid significant power compression and get much longer life out of them.

Edit: You also have to take into account the music being played.  I allow a lot more headroom for live music with a lower duty cycle than heavily compressed playback material.


Edited by ceharden - 29 September 2014 at 1:44am
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Dave FFA View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave FFA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 8:38am
Go with the pair of pl380's - they will give you best efficiency as you are most likely running at 120V supply, they are very powerful and from my personal experience have no doubt these will deliver good bass. I believe these are still made in the US too. The PV amps are not in the same league at the QSC's  - The QSC's will also have a 5 year warranty as they do here in the UK?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 10:19am
What Dave said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by ceharden ceharden wrote:

Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Robin, that might be true about what BC claim. But how long will those drivers last driven with 2400W each all the time, that is another question. I am not a big fun of giving the drivers full program power.
This is mainly because manufacturers state the program power having 6 db crest factor on mind as in a perfect world. Todays music has barely 3db dynamic. Too compressed. That changes power handling.

+1  There is too much hype about you must run 2xRMS into your drivers etc etc.  Especially if you factor in power compression, in a lot of cases you're throwing a lot of extra power at the drivers without really getting much benefit.  I far prefer to run my drivers well within their limits, avoid significant power compression and get much longer life out of them.

Edit: You also have to take into account the music being played.  I allow a lot more headroom for live music with a lower duty cycle than heavily compressed playback material.
  
 
Completely agree with all the above.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RobinMatrix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Robin, that might be true about what BC claim. But how long will those drivers last driven with 2400W each all the time, that is another question. I am not a big fun of giving the drivers full program power.
This is mainly because manufacturers state the program power having 6 db crest factor on mind as in a perfect world. Todays music has barely 3db dynamic. Too compressed. That changes power handling.


While you are correct that the crest factor of the music has to be taken into account in terms of thermal load, you also have to remember that not all the tracks people play are that compressed. If your amps have the headroom, it can sound great on a really well produced track with a dynamic bass line ... if you started out with amps that are simply too small, you just get a compressed mush.  A bit more headroom in the amp department is always good.

And with some speaker brands I would hesitate to push them as hard as the manufacturers claim ... but we have found B&C to be generally conservative in their ratings and do "what it says on the tin"

What tends to happen with amps that are simply too small for the job is that people "push" them too hard in order to try and get the performance they thing they should be getting, and end up clipping the amp which is never good for the driver.  Amps sized are somewhere between 1.5 and 2x AES are about right ... 2x for a good quality driver and fairly dynamic music, 1.5 x for lower spec drivers or heavily compressed bass.   There are even some drivers out there I hesitate to recommend you even push as far as their AES rating ...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Builder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 10:36pm
Quote

+1  There is too much hype about you must run 2xRMS into your drivers etc etc.  Especially if you factor in power compression, in a lot of cases you're throwing a lot of extra power at the drivers without really getting much benefit.  I far prefer to run my drivers well within their limits, avoid significant power compression and get much longer life out of them.

Edit: You also have to take into account the music being played.  I allow a lot more headroom for live music with a lower duty cycle than heavily compressed playback material.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed 100%.

As for the pushing too hard if the amps are too small and getting mush argument, simples:
Don't, or limit so they cannot and give them loud monitors. For decades people did not have this much power, it's almost gone too far. Efficiency is where it should be at surley?
There is a parady with software, huge hard drives now so lazy coding.
IMHO blah di blah
It just is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sypa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 September 2014 at 10:55pm
As for pushing too hard,things will almost always by the end of the night get pushed to the max. If not limited better to clip an amp with 1200w on one driver than 2400 :) .
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