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B2/6th Bandpass Chassis
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airbell View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 June 2009
Location: Berlin, Germany
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Points: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: B2/6th Bandpass Chassis
    Posted: 18 June 2009 at 10:29pm
Hello

I have two B2 Subs, or I guess its not the original, just from paplans.de.vu,

and a lot of people says this are not the original sizes inside..

but however they work very well outside with a load of deep bass

They're built as 6th bandpass enclosures (3 chambers)!

Loaded with RCFL18S800..

Just want to know if there're some chassis that work better in that

sub than the l18s800....

Do they need a big vas, or isn't it much important
a high BL?
a lower or a higher qts,
and xmas as big as possible?

the p audio sd 18 has JUST 5mm linear cone excursion...!

would the b&c 18sw 115 fit into it?

with more power and more max spl output?

*      96dB
* Fs 35 Hz
* Re 5.3 ohm
* Qes 0.37
* Qms 6.3
* Qts 0.35
* Vas 145 dm3 (5.10 ft3)
* Sd 1210 cm2 (187.60 in2)
* ?0 1.6 %
* Xmax ± 14 mm
* Xvar ± 15 mm
* Mms 300 g
* Bl 30.6 Txm
* Le 1.9 mH

Or is there any better?
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airbell View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 June 2009
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Points: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 June 2009 at 10:34pm
sry forgot the tsp from the l18s800Smile

700w rms
rs 39hz
99.5dB
vas 206l
Qts 0,29
Bl 24.5
xmax 6,8mm



and the b&c driver has 1700w rms/aes...
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Ibex View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 27 May 2009
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Points: 1013 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2009 at 9:46pm
Hi airbell,
I read somewhere in this forum that d&b first used the RCF L18S800, then they changed to the B&C 18PZB46 (which is replaced by the B&C 18PZB100). They are supposed to be OEM versions with slightly heavier cones...
In the following plots you can see the differences between the driver evolution. They are bloody similar.
The B&C 18SW115 won't be the best choice, you had to accept a bumpier frequency response...
I don't know, if it would sound as good as with the other alternative drivers, because I think a flat response isn't the most crucial...

d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800 vs. B&C 18PZB46 - SPL
black = d&b B2 x2 - B&C 18PZB46
grey = d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800

d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800 vs. B&C 18PZB100 - SPL
black = d&b B2 x2 - B&C 18PZB100
grey = d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800

d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800 vs. B&C 18SW115 - SPL
black = d&b B2 x2 - B&C 18SW115
grey = d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800

greez
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airbell View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 June 2009
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Points: 284 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote airbell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2009 at 1:21am
Thanks for your graphs IbexSmile
Just wondered why you used Hornresp to simulate this, because thought B2 isn't a "really"
horn at all, more a BP..(?)
Anyway, the RCF18S800 has a more flat frequence response I agree and a higher average
spl rated on 1W/1m.
But as i simulated a "half" B2 with WinISD I could see by full rated power
that the cone excursion is over max at around 50hz!!
That's the same what I'm asking me about the x1 sub from Rog...the Paudio SD 18
he suggested has only 5mm max cone excoursion.
that's so low for a bandpass sub that should move a lot of air...(??)
And Rog himself wrote the SD multiplicated with the max linear cone excursion
is the factor how much air the driver is able to move and so how much
max bass is able to produce!

and that was my philosophy by naming the 18sw115
because the chassi has about 1700w rms and a xmax=+14mm/-14mm!!
of course probably you need a lot of power but the max
spl should be a lot greater..or am i wrong??
please correct me im not sooo much experienced...
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Ibex View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Joined: 27 May 2009
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Points: 1013 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ibex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 July 2009 at 10:34am

No problem, airbell!

You have to know, that it is possible to simulate every enclosure type as an horn Wink
Furthermore the B2 middle chamber is ported via a small horn. But you are right, it is a 6th order bandpass design.
Note, that the voice coil/cone is able to move out of the linear excursion range as well, but in this case the driver will produce more distortion.
For sure, the more cone movement the more max SPL you can expect.
cheers
 
ps: eigentlich könnten wir in deutsch fachsimpeln, allerdings würde, sofern sich jemand in diesem forum für diesen thread interessiert, niemand etwas verstehen...?
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audionik View Drop Down
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Points: 63 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audionik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 8:57pm
Did you ever compare L18s800 to LW 1400 in B2 or other sub?
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7816 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2009 at 11:02pm
Ibex can you post  screen shot of the input data
i am too interested in how to simulate some of my drivers in that box.

Tnx
Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics
www.mm-acoustics.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713
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Ibex View Drop Down
Young Croc
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B2 - Input
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Ibex View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Originally posted by audionik audionik wrote:

Did you ever compare L18s800 to LW 1400 in B2 or other sub?


d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800 vs. 18Sound 18LW1400
black = d&b B2 x2 - 18Sound 18LW1400
grey = d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800
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audionik View Drop Down
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Points: 63 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audionik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Ibex Ibex wrote:

Originally posted by audionik audionik wrote:

Did you ever compare L18s800 to LW 1400 in B2 or other sub?


d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800 vs. 18Sound 18LW1400
black = d&b B2 x2 - 18Sound 18LW1400
grey = d&b B2 x2 - RCF L18S800


And do you have the graph of 18TBX100 vs LW1400 or L18p300? Have you the same for RCF L18S8001?

Thanks.


Edited by audionik - 02 November 2009 at 7:56pm
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Ibex View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Most are bloody similar...

here you are: http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv181/Ibex2912/B2%20vs%20X1/
(note that the sims are for 2 cabs, with a single cab arrangement the second peak dominates the bottom end peak)

greez
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bitzo View Drop Down
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Points: 977 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bitzo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2009 at 8:06pm
too kind Ibex, you give input data and some example other users can sim by theirself.
United Roots SoundSystem site
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