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mr. doom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr. doom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 3:09pm

 Remember if the driver is 8ohms it is not getting 300watts @ 12v and most car amps are designed/tested with higher voltage (14v) in mind.

The 12" beyma drivers with can put out a impressive amount of low end (8mm xmax) and are kind of wasted in that tiny box, what about replacing them with cheaper/louder 12's and then using the drivers for sub/midbass units...




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Saturnus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by mr. doom mr. doom wrote:


 Remember if the driver is 8ohms it is not getting 300watts @ 12v and most car amps are designed/tested with higher voltage (14v) in mind.

Battery voltage is 12.8V nominal with a LiFePO4 battery as is used here but will be 14.6V fully charged.

The amp is measured at 14.4V as is the standard for car audio. But it has a digital voltage tracking PWM power supply which can adjust for voltages as low as 11.2V and still give nominal output. Which is why it will give the same output into both 4 and 2 ohms loads. It simply adjust the supply voltage to the amp.

The drivers reach down to 7.1 ohms in this cab so 150W RMS and 300W peak isn't unrealistic.

EDIT: I should note that I'm normally not fond of car audio amps. But the Alpine PDX series is quite close to being perfect for all uses where higher power is needed than can be achieved directly on batteries. Indeed it also has input sensitivity that is high enough to be feed directly from mp3 player (at maximum gain).




Edited by Saturnus - 02 August 2012 at 3:31pm
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mr. doom View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr. doom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 4:05pm
Good to that  about the PDX and Lipo's, my Chinese lithiums and sla's only charge to 12v.

I am watching this thread because I am trying to power six ten's in my own rig and wondering if a car amp would be much of an improvement over a TK2050 4x100 @24v... or if it makes more sense to 
add a TAS5630 amp to the kit.
 Thanks for the information, not trying to threadjack, just have similar power needs.Smile    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fergatron1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 4:39pm
welcome,

Battery charges to 14.65v. The amp performs perceivably uniformally until cutting out completely when battery is flat.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fergatron1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by Saturnus Saturnus wrote:

 
Originally posted by fergatron1 fergatron1 wrote:

What do you think?

One thing I don't understand is why Mogale's plot of the 184 sub reaches near to 105db. When I modelled the 184 it was very similar the 18sb40, peaking about 97db..

Remember to include filtering in your plots. The minimum filter is 4th order L-R at 200hz. And sub cut filter is 2nd order B-R at 15hz in your amp. The BR portion should look exactly the same as in my plot. Also, did you check port length in your sim? I suspect that with such a large rear chamber and low tuning the port will actually not fit inside the cabinet if you are to avoid too high air velocities. EDIT: Checked. It's fine although you have to go up to 2x 120mm ports for both front and back. Phase/Group Delay plots don't look pretty though.

My goal was something that was flat to 50hz, small enough that you could fit the Boominator-style top in the same trunk (to replace your existing BR) and went high enough to be crossed with the tops directly. I think I achieved that.

2 identical BP cabs will naturally be able to play much higher volume (+6dB) than a single BP + BR.

The Mogale plot reaches about 104dB. I suspect one of two things have been done. Either it's a stereo set, meaning 2 cabs with separate amps to each, or the measurement is done at 25cm instead of 1m because it's naturally not posible to suddenly get a 6dB lift over the speakers sensitivity. At least not if the software used is accurate.  



Ok, Thanks about the filters.

+6db sounds good.

The BR box empty has a volume of 91l ( int. dim:254 x 724 x 500).

Would your desing fit in this?

How about mr.dooms suggetion of using the beymas down low?

Thanks

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fergatron1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by mr. doom mr. doom wrote:


 Remember if the driver is 8ohms it is not getting 300watts @ 12v and most car amps are designed/tested with higher voltage (14v) in mind.

The 12" beyma drivers with can put out a impressive amount of low end (8mm xmax) and are kind of wasted in that tiny box, what about replacing them with cheaper/louder 12's and then using the drivers for sub/midbass units...






My spec sheet says 2mm xmax, i think hence the efficiency?

but I couldn't get much out of them on 'isd.


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fergatron1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fergatron1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 August 2012 at 5:44pm
I just bought the PDN..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mr. doom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 1:45am
Originally posted by fergatron1 fergatron1 wrote:

Originally posted by mr. doom<div><br></div><div>The 12 beyma drivers with can put out a impressive amount of low end (8mm xmax) and are kind of wasted in that tiny box, what about replacing them with cheaper/louder 12's and then using the drivers for sub/midbass units...</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></td></tr></table><br><br>My spec sheet says 2mm xmax, i think hence the efficiency?<br><br>but I couldn't get much out of them on 'isd.<br><br><br>[/QUOTE mr. doom

The 12 beyma drivers with can put out a impressive amount of low end (8mm xmax) and are kind of wasted in that tiny box, what about replacing them with cheaper/louder 12's and then using the drivers for sub/midbass units...






My spec sheet says 2mm xmax, i think hence the efficiency?

but I couldn't get much out of them on 'isd.


[/QUOTE wrote:


If I had four of those in a small box I would seal it and try to run 1200watts with a linkwitz transform filter and leave the big box at home... you would need more batteries! 

If I had four of those in a small box I would seal it and try to run 1200watts with a linkwitz transform filter and leave the big box at home... you would need more batteries! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 6:23am
 I suspect the Beyma drivers used is the famous 122nd with 103dB sensitivity but maybe Fergatron1 can enlighten us so we don't have to speculate.  

Edited by Saturnus - 03 August 2012 at 6:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fergatron1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 11:33am
Yes 112nd is correct.
8.4% no. was the clincher.
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Saturnus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 11:40am
Originally posted by fergatron1 fergatron1 wrote:

Yes 112nd is correct.

8.4% no. was the clincher.

What confuses here is that you insist on typing that wrong. Tongue

It's the 122nd you have, not the 112nd(W). It's 2 different speakers. Smile

The 112nd is a subwoofer driver, magnet is heat sinked. 96dB/w/m. Xmax=8mm and Xlim=34mm.

The 122nd is a midwoofer driver. 103dB/w/m. Xmax=2mm and Xlim=16.

Smile

Edited by Saturnus - 03 August 2012 at 11:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fergatron1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2012 at 12:51pm
Ah I stand corrected. I intended the 122nd but made an error..
Thanks for clearing that up..
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