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Behringer S16 Cat5 Multi & DCX2496 Ultradrive
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Soundscape View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 February 2012 at 10:24pm
I tried a search on this subject but didn't find anything relevant so if it has come up before, sorry.

The new Behringer X32 digital mixer plus the forthcoming X16 version are intended to be used with the S16 Digital Multicore - obviously 2 of these units required for use with the X32 and linked together via AES50 standard cables.

Reading through the spec of the X32 it packs in a lot of features but as far as I can tell doesn't include any form of LMS - probably the design brief never allowed or intended this and maybe a 'step too far' as they already produce the Ultradrive.

However, suppose you're a band or PA operator wanting to use a DCX2496 Ultradrive in your FOH rack with one of the above mixers (yes, I'm well aware it's not considered 'pro gear' by many and those who already have BSS or XTA based systems probably won't be interested anyway), it appears to me you could use the 6 returns built into the S16 via the 6 line ins built into the mixers.

What do others think? Is this setup perfectly feasible or is there a better solution - preferably still using CAT5 for the returns e.g such as APPSYS offer?

Thanks to all    Steve
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Phil B View Drop Down
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Points: 1533 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 12:03am
Depends if you want redundancy?
Normally returns are seperate from FOH desk multis to allow for re-patching and board swapping etc etc. Also the power for the drive comes down the returns not the FOH multi again for redundancy.
For small gigs with no changes it would be fine...what you would really need though is an Ultradive that accepts AES50! Maybe that`s in the pipeline?

.p.
Down under the subs or on stage making a Tea.
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Points: 73 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soundscape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 9:47am
I agree that having capacity for redundancy is a wise choice and use a separate returns multi with other setups.

Mind you there was a case some years ago when some 'well meaning' numtie of a stage hand decided to tidy up multicores laid in a venue somewhere by nailing them to the structure......
I can just imagine the look of horror on the PA opo's face when he relaised what had happenedOuch

Double redundancy needed!!

But an updated version of the Ultradrive with AES50 outputs - that would be useful. However, if that's not going to be available for various reasons we come back to using a conventional multicore for returns. The Swiss co. Appsys  (http://www.appsys.ch) have some nice kit which I've been considering but there's still the issue of converting analogue - digital and back to analogue which is a tad messy.

Steve
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Points: 2619 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 1:00pm
With AES-50 you can true rundancy by using HyperMac routers to load balance over several links in case on fails, the truth is CAT-5 isn't very gig friendly and no-one in their right mind would build a CAT5 multi without at least one spare line in it.
AES-50 is a Layer 1 Ethernet protocol, IE it abaides by the electrical spec for Ethernet but use proprietry framing and encapsulation so you can't just slam the wire into a Cisco switch and run a cat-5 down either side of the room, but if you treat a cat-5 'core with the TLC you should treat and anolog core you should be fine.
As for AES-50 > Ultrdrive there is no real point in pumping tens of channels of AES-50 into an LMS-with only 6 outs, an AES-50 <> AES/EBU bridge node is what you need, so you can grab the returns channels you need and shoot them into your Ultradrive, but this kinda kit has been historically VERY expensive, that said as the EtherSound, AES-50 market open up budget kit should become available...
 
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Points: 1169 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smiter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2012 at 1:24pm
You should be able to use matrix outputs to control the speakers - and the outputs of these should have EQ, limiting and HPF / LPF slopes. If it can't do that, then it's not even as capable as an LS9
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Phil B View Drop Down
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Points: 1533 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 2:03am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

As for AES-50 > Ultrdrive there is no real point in pumping tens of channels of AES-50 into an LMS-with only 6 outs, an AES-50 <> AES/EBU bridge node is what you need, so you can grab the returns channels you need and shoot them into your Ultradrive, but this kinda kit has been historically VERY expensive, that said as the EtherSound, AES-50 market open up budget kit should become available...
 


Too right it`s expensive! The Midas Network Bridge is great tool but far too expensive!

http://www.midasconsoles.com/dn9650.php?src=pro6

Let`s see if the Bellringers can come up with a cheaper AES50 / AES convertor?

.p.
Down under the subs or on stage making a Tea.
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Points: 73 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soundscape Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2012 at 9:54pm
Thanks for the comments & info.

There's something of a dilemma here as we can see good quality, used analogue gear coming onto the market at reasonable money. But the size and weight of this gear e.g. 24, 32 & 40 ch desks + outboard racks + standard multicores can be an issue for small PA companies and bands:  number of people required to setup and operate, size of van/truck required and its associated costs, space available in smaller venues (of which there are fewer, especially pubs that provide live music), setup and takedown times compared to what rates can be charged.

The development of various digital products offering more features and importantly, more value, has to be helpful in many ways.

I appreciate the pro touring market and larger venues are going to specify industry standard products - that's their choice and no one is likely to argue (much) about using a Midas Network Bridge if the tour can afford it.
However, I'm eager to see more budget kit come to market because it will present new opportunities at the lower end of the market and hopefully the successful bands will move up the (food?) chain and then use the best kit available.
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