Building a PA for a 3200 sq ft club! HELP!!

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   Hey, so am planning to turn the old family barn into a nightclub and I've been researching PA systems online for a few days now and needless to say am still confused as hell, and would really appreciate some guidance. 
The barn is a 82 ft x 39 ft (3198 sq ft) brick enclosure and the ceiling is about 16 ft high. Now instead of buying a system I've decided to get one build, what kind of PA would work to really light this place up? Here's what I've planned so far.

TOPS: 4 x three way line arrays (2 on each side) powered by 2 x 12" LF, 4 x 6" MF, 2 x 2" HF drivers.  

SUBS: 2 x dual 18" front loaded. (I would love to have a folded horn or a scoop but research tells me they are best for outdoors and won't do justice in 3200 sq ft club...but let me know if you think otherwise)

Now a sound engineer friend of mine is suggesting I swap the 12" for 15" and get 6 x arrays (3 on each side) and 3 x dual 18" subs but I think that would a bit much, maybe keep the 12" but get 6 x arrays with 3 x dual 18", also I've no idea what kind of wattage would be adequate for the speakers as well as the system as a whole, also speaker sensitivity, SPL and all that jazz. As you can probably tell am quite confused and any help is appreciated, the club would strictly be electronic in nature, between 90 bpm - 180 bpm, you know dub/house/techno all that goodness. 

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oddbird Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 29 May 2016 Status: Offline Points: 2	Post Options Post Reply Quote oddbird Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Building a PA for a 3200 sq ft club! HELP!! Posted: 29 May 2016 at 10:34pm
	Hey, so am planning to turn the old family barn into a nightclub and I've been researching PA systems online for a few days now and needless to say am still confused as hell, and would really appreciate some guidance. The barn is a 82 ft x 39 ft (3198 sq ft) brick enclosure and the ceiling is about 16 ft high. Now instead of buying a system I've decided to get one build, what kind of PA would work to really light this place up? Here's what I've planned so far. TOPS: 4 x three way line arrays (2 on each side) powered by 2 x 12" LF, 4 x 6" MF, 2 x 2" HF drivers. SUBS: 2 x dual 18" front loaded. (I would love to have a folded horn or a scoop but research tells me they are best for outdoors and won't do justice in 3200 sq ft club...but let me know if you think otherwise) Now a sound engineer friend of mine is suggesting I swap the 12" for 15" and get 6 x arrays (3 on each side) and 3 x dual 18" subs but I think that would a bit much, maybe keep the 12" but get 6 x arrays with 3 x dual 18", also I've no idea what kind of wattage would be adequate for the speakers as well as the system as a whole, also speaker sensitivity, SPL and all that jazz. As you can probably tell am quite confused and any help is appreciated, the club would strictly be electronic in nature, between 90 bpm - 180 bpm, you know dub/house/techno all that goodness.

mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 November 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 7801	Post Options Post Reply Quote mk2_ginger_biscuit69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 2016 at 10:56pm
	when you say club, if you are in a 1st world country, chances are you need to get a license to make noise, or operate as anything resembling a nightclub. So might want to look at that first as it is pretty expensive ordeal. Secondly, why does it have to be line array? Its complicated to design and implement effectively, and in small amounts like you mention, doesn't actually do anything resembling an 'array'. Thirdly, whats your budget, what drivers/suppliers are available, wattage depends on drivers and system limits. Read a lot more, you have much to learn. .......Timmy?
	''Remember that the object of a subwoofer is to enhance the output of your main speakers, not overpower it'' ''Dubstep - an elongated electronic fart''

ceharden Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776	Post Options Post Reply Quote ceharden Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 2016 at 11:18pm
	Biggest advice I can give is find someone local to you who knows PA systems well. You need someone with experience to actually walk round the room and assess how the system will work in there, then set it up properly once it's built. Two or three boxes per side are not a 'line array' but just a vertical array of boxes. Whether that is appropriate for your room will depend on how the layout is configured. I don't think anyone on here who designs cabs will say they often get it right first time. If you're set on building something which is a bit unusual, expect to have to go through two or three prototype stages before you reach a design that works. Are you planning to ground stack or fly the mid-tops? For a nightclub with a reasonable height roof (which you have), you'll get better coverage if you can fly the speakers and angle them down. To do this will require the speakers to be designed for flying and you'd be better off finding some decent ex-touring cabinets second hand.

MarjanM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarjanM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 May 2016 at 11:44pm
	Good luck making a line array. That is all i can say at this point.
	Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713

snowflake Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 29 December 2004 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 3122	Post Options Post Reply Quote snowflake Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 2016 at 11:54am
	build the subs - there are plenty of tried and tested 2*18 designs you can use. If you haven't built anything before I would suggest you buy some second hand tops. If you want to fly them get some with proper tested flying points built in. If you decide they aren't quite right you can always sell them on again and try something else. definitely don't use small amounts of line array.

Earplug Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216	Post Options Post Reply Quote Earplug Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 2016 at 4:47pm
	Is it going to be just muzak, or are you going to have a stage and groups? Otherwise why are you putting all the speakers at one end? For a club, distributing the speakers around the dance area would be far more sensible, rather than trying to cover it all from just one end. If you are going to have live acts, then putting more at one end does make sense, but with DSP´s being so cheap these days, distributing the sound with an appropriate delay is fairly simple. Edited by Earplug - 30 May 2016 at 4:48pm
	Earplugs Are For Wimps!

mini-mad Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 13 July 2012 Location: london Status: Offline Points: 6903	Post Options Post Reply Quote mini-mad Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 2016 at 6:53pm
	JBL wrote a "book" on just this subject. someone link the guy so he can get a better understanding of what a club entails
	If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.

Earplug Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 03 January 2012 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 7216	Post Options Post Reply Quote Earplug Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 2016 at 7:23pm
	Here: https://www.google.es/search?q=Sound+System+Design+Reference+Manual+jbl&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&ei=r4RMV-bGAqKs8wekwICgAg#q=JBL+Sound+System+Design+Reference+Manual+ EV PA Bible is good as well. Edited by Earplug - 30 May 2016 at 7:25pm
	Earplugs Are For Wimps!

THECANDLEMAN Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Young Croc Joined: 08 December 2008 Location: CentralScotland Status: Offline Points: 1144	Post Options Post Reply Quote THECANDLEMAN Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 2016 at 9:00pm
	Maybe hire in a big pile of kit and have a play to find what you like and how much you need. Then youll know where to start and what your aiming for instead of building too much or have too few boxes for the space Also dont underestimate how much thought goes into your processers , amps, cabling and can I say power settup as it will effect the quality and reliability hugely
	Motion Systems - Void Airmotion, Airten & Stasys 218 With Powersoft DSP

kevinmcdonough Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 27 June 2005 Location: Glasgow Status: Offline Points: 3751	Post Options Post Reply Quote kevinmcdonough Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 30 May 2016 at 11:27pm
	hey Yeah I think you totally underestimate the scale of the task you have here! People have made many good points. First of all, you almost certainly don't want a line array, or at the very least not a 12" or 15" three way one. The whole point of a line array is you need to have a long line of them to make the physics work. Just having two, or even 3, a side is just 3 speakers hanging one below the other. It's not a line array. You also need to spend a lot of time on the design of the metalwork and flying system to get it hung up in the roof safely, as well as the actual acoustic design of the box. While you haven't mentioned your budget as such I think you'll be very surprised at how quickly it disappears! And that doesn't even account for amps, processing, cabling, and all the other goodies you will need. The reason there are no readily available, easy plans for line array boxes is that its not that easy! And not all that cost effective either, you end up spending way more on HF drivers especially that you would need in equivalent point source boxes. A smaller line array MAY be the solution, with many smaller boxes rather than just a few big ones, but much more information is needed. But there's a good chance that some well designed point source boxes will provide you with more volume and better sound, and at the same time be much easier to design, build and install, and even so still be cheaper than your line array design. Or second hand boxes may also be a way to go. What would be much better is to try and tell us what you want to achieve? Are you wanting to create a stage area and have all the sound coming from there? (so one big system would be needed?) or are you wanting to evenly spread the sound throughout the building? When you say nightclub do you mean an actual commercial, paying customer, venue, or just somewhere for you and your mates to party? Will you be adding a bar? toilets? store rooms? Green room? Office areas? All of this will take up significant space from your building, so how many people do foresee having in the building? What kind of furniture will you have? will the main space needing sound be a big open square or rectangle? or will it be a more unusual shape based around fitting all the previous things in (bar, store rooms, toilets etc etc). Are the walls single or double skinned? What's the roof made of? Is the building airtight or are there significant spaces in the construction (for example where the ceiling meets the roof)? What are the doors made of and how well do they seal? How close are your nearest neighbours and will the complain at both a lot of loud music and a lot of drunk people leaving and making noise at silly o'clock am? Will you have actual commercial DJ's playing or will it just be you and your mates? Will the want access to different set up's of decks and mixers depending on their style, or will they be happy with whatever the house configuration is? Who will provide all of these different mixers and set ups? Who will maintain the system, and provide things run smoothly on the night? I don't know if you're seeing where I'm coming from with all of this, but this kind of thing is a SIGNIFICANT project and investment that I think is maybe way more complicated than you realise. Much more info would allow us to try and point you in the right direction. But as someone mentioned, this might all be in vein if you can get a licence from the council to run this sort of thing commercially, so it's probably worth looking into that and seeing what requirements they have and what hoops they're gonna make you jump through before anything else. hope that helps at least some what, K Edited by kevinmcdonough - 31 May 2016 at 12:00am