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'burst' power for torroidal amps?

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Timebomb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Timebomb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:



Here is something to think about Timebomb.


I have a few Crown Powerbase 3's that can give a burst of 1575 watts @ 4 ohms using 1 kHz tone with 0.05% THD. However, within 40 milliseconds it stabilises to 815 watts using a 1 kHz tone @ 0.05% THD. The continuous average power is 720 watts @ 1 kHz with 0.05% THD.

In 1997 it was marketed as a 1500 watt amplifier. In 2009 it could be labeled as a 3000 watt amplifier.

My apologies 3200 watts.

Best Regards,




Thats quite a difference, if it was a new behringer it would be marketed as a 6400W amp!!

I do think its usefull info though, theres more to burst tests than having some vague reasioning for over the top marketing claims.  I agree 1500W for half the time is not really 1500W, its 750W.  Its usefull to know how an amp will behave when guiven a signal with a lower duty cycle than a sine wave though. 
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andyamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 4:19pm
I hope the big boy keep doing burst power ampsLOL
its good for meCry
thanks Rog
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rich_gale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 5:40pm
yo andy.  cheers for the heads up on the araldite for my sqealing toroid.  fixed it good and proper! xxx
REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DjLeco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 6:13pm
Real WORLD of last generation of BURST Power Amplifiers.
 
Scroll till the end.
Do you like Burst power?
Is like PMPO power(on my opinion)
 
Sorry for disgrace them but for me those amps are like Arnold movie "True Lies"...
K10 max 1400W RMS continouous...
Where is the rest till 8 Kw?
Crown Itech 8000 2xmax 500 W continuous, ... sux
Labgruppen FP6400 max 2x 1000W continuous, s*it...
 
What the hell is that?Dead
Looks the marketing takes place instead real power...
 
That's why I like  the most , OLDSCHOOLS amplifiers HEAVY but REALLY...


Edited by DjLeco - 11 May 2009 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 6:42pm
I like burst power,but with FCensored OFF BIG POWER SUPPLY, and not with BULLCensored oneLOL
sorry it cost money to build a big psu
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 8:53pm

Originally posted by Timebomb Timebomb wrote:


Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:



Here is something to think about Timebomb.


I have a few Crown Powerbase 3's that can give a burst of 1575
watts @ 4 ohms using 1 kHz tone with 0.05% THD. However, within 40
milliseconds it stabilises to 815 watts using a 1 kHz tone @ 0.05% THD.
The continuous average power is 720 watts @ 1 kHz with 0.05% THD.
In 1997 it was marketed as a 1500 watt amplifier. In 2009 it could be labeled as a 3000 watt amplifier.
My apologies 3200 watts.
Best Regards,




Thats quite a difference, if it was a new behringer it would be marketed as a 6400W amp!!

I do think its usefull info though, theres more to burst tests than
having some vague reasioning for over the top marketing claims.  I
agree 1500W for half the time is not really 1500W, its 750W.  Its
usefull to know how an amp will behave when guiven a signal with a
lower duty cycle than a sine wave though. 


Those were the type of testing procedures found in all Crown manuals ranging from their PSA 2 in the late 70’s to the MA 5000vz in the early 1990’s.

Various duty cycles could be found in the “A.C. Power Draw and Thermal Dissipation” chart. There was no 1/8 or 1/3 power that is so common today. Instead, you would find duty cycles ranging from 10 – 50%

Reading a Crown manual then, was like reading a textbook.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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tallmike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 9:09pm
I find a lot of this 'burst power' debate quite trivial really - when the power handling of drive units is based around continuous and transient power. Personally, I'd rather choose an amp that delivers the continuous rating of a drive unit but can also deliver the 'burst rating' as well, although I don't require them to do it continuously.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fredos666 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 May 2009 at 10:56pm
I think manufacturer didn't do burst power in same maner....When I bench, power amp, I always use Burst, but burst of at least 500ms and then 1000ms off...I have to do that because here we just have 120V at 20A in the outlet! In that way, I always get a value really close to RMS stated power...I agree that a 10ms burst will be a lot more than a 500ms one!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DjLeco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2009 at 1:17am
Fredos, I know you produce D-Amps, classD amplifiers,a simple question please:
 
Is not more FAIR to give in amplifiers specifications, the REAL RMS power than the burst peak power?
 
I know, by example, the amplifiers with big burst power, ex Powersoft K10 is rated for 2x8 Kwatts and those type of amplifiers are very good for live applications used especially for bass part.
 
Ok, presuming the burst power is really 2x5000W, and using those amp exclusive for subs,where are preponderent bass under 50 Hz, if there is a bass passage longer than 500 msec,generated by a bass guitar or by  a synthesizer , I give by example the song "Prodigal blues" of Billy Idol,where the bass are by synthesizer at frecv around 35 Hz, longer than 4-6 seconds, HOW will perform those burst amplifiers?
 
Their REAL power (Powersoft K10 in case)  woll drop from 2x6000 watts (burst 20 msec) till 2x1400 watts RMS maximum, because:
 
Their power supply cannot aford that power of such seconds of bass?
 
Or final stage cannot sustain the power?
 
Is that fair?
Wich is  RESPONSABLE for that enormous power dropping?
 
 
 
Because I listen MUSIC,  wich between  burst of 20-200 msecs,it could contain longer type of signal than burst of 20 msec...
 
 With what help me in my case, an amplifier K10 if his real RMS power is max 2x1300-1500 watts sustainable than a macrotech VZ5000, excluding weight ans internal DSP of K10?
 
Thank you for further explanations, I want to understand the scope of this huge  burst power,instead real RMS power.


Edited by DjLeco - 12 May 2009 at 1:25am
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andyamp View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2009 at 5:44am
lots of profit.
Burst powerLOL

a wise man changes his mind a fool does not.
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tallmike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2009 at 8:47am
A K-10 will do far more than 2x1400w continuous
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DjLeco Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 May 2009 at 11:43am
Waitin' 4 Mr. Fredos answer...
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