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cerwin vega afterburners

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heinrich View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heinrich Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2008 at 1:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jethrocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2008 at 1:18am
Ok, here's most of it... All panels individually drawn out with dimensions, and an overall plan of panel placement.. Forgot I need to draw up a key so you know which is panel A, B etc...
The dimensions are what sketchup gave me as I drew it out, so I advise anyone using them to draw it up on a side panel before making the rest of the cuts. Just that sketchup isn't really a proper cad program so I'm a bit dubious of the accuracy.























I previously forgot to mention that I drew this box with the 500mm internal width that I will use, simple enough to cut all your panels with the extra 100mm if you want it full width. You would then also need to change the top panels, the outer layer is two sections on mine with the access panel between, if making box wider you would need to make one large peice with the access panel cut out.
I think the back panel is missing from the drawings, but you can work that out...


Edited by jethrocker - 07 March 2008 at 1:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote justamadman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2008 at 3:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2008 at 11:31pm
The Aluminium "heatsink" does not work as a heatsink its only there for cosmetic and marketing reasons(in other words--bullsh-t) its not even close to the drivers magnet which is not very large at all and the cone is really light and flimsy---in fact the driver looks like it could be a real cheap B+C OEM unit or even a cheap Chinese B+C clone--on top of all this the performance is terrible--one of Tonys ASS BS 600 will comfortably blow one of the Vegas away and even a Turbosound TSE118 with a 300 watt driver will outperform it and is less than half the size of the Afterburner-----Having said all that, I would still like to hear this cabinet with a hefty driver like a PD 1850 or a Void inside it as I reckon that it could be pretty good, but really, you might just as well build an 1850 or 186 cabinet that you already know works well--cheers--John.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 March 2008 at 11:48pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

but really, you might just as well build an 1850 or 186 cabinet that you already know works well--cheers--John.


If designers thought like that, it would have all stopped at reflex cabs, and 8" woofers.

The Vega has larger chamber, longer horn, and I'm sure it has larger horn mouth.

This means 45hz with right driver, and maybe lower,  with High Xmax driver like Turbomax.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tb_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 1:21am
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

The Aluminium "heatsink" does not work as a heatsink its only there for cosmetic and marketing reasons(in other words--bullsh-t) its not even close to the drivers magnet which is not very large at all and the cone is really light and flimsy---in fact the driver looks like it could be a real cheap B+C OEM unit or even a cheap Chinese B+C clone--on top of all this the performance is terrible--one of Tonys ASS BS 600 will comfortably blow one of the Vegas away and even a Turbosound TSE118 with a 300 watt driver will outperform it and is less than half the size of the Afterburner-----Having said all that, I would still like to hear this cabinet with a hefty driver like a PD 1850 or a Void inside it as I reckon that it could be pretty good, but really, you might just as well build an 1850 or 186 cabinet that you already know works well--cheers--John.

hah - its not even connected to the driver.The problem is the heat transfer from the VC to the air - Having a metal plate to sink heat from the air inside the box...I wouldnt expect much:P Its like removing the spare tyre from your HUMMER to save on fuel consumption.

see waynes lab12 heatsink.
http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/messages/17786.html
Quote The last several days, I performed a series of tests to find the limits of the LAB12 with the heat exchanger installed. I intended to push the driver to the point of failure, but after power was well above twice the level that caused it to fail without the heat exchanger, I realized that a destructive test was not really necessary. The LAB12 with a heat exchanger survived 2 hours at 60VRMS, which is approximately 840WRMS. At this point, I decided to end the test.


id expect an 1850 to have  similar sort of response and cutoff.The 90* corners are better for the upper cutoff - but whos counting/measuring.


Edited by tb_mike - 08 March 2008 at 1:24am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

but really, you might just as well build an 1850 or 186 cabinet that you already know works well--cheers--John.


If designers thought like that, it would have all stopped at reflex cabs, and 8" woofers.

The Vega has larger chamber, longer horn, and I'm sure it has larger horn mouth.

This means 45hz with right driver, and maybe lower,  with High Xmax driver like Turbomax.
Yes the Vega has a bigger chamber but the horn length on an 1850 is longer and the horn mouth is the same size---hence my statement about building an 1850 instead of the Vega as it should also outperform the Vega if both boxes are loaded with the same driver 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Yes the Vega has a bigger chamber but the horn length on an 1850 is longer and the horn


The horn length of the 1850 is 5.5ft approx, 1.67M.

The horn length of the AB-36/SL36 is 6ft.

If I am correct,

Martin WSX =      7 ft     Horn = 40hz cutoff
CV AB36/SL36 =  6ft     Horn = 45hz cutoff
1850 Horn      =  5.5ft   Horn = 50hz cutoff

Have a look at the FAQ to confirm Rogs Short Horn lengths.

The 1850 will have louder kick, but CV bin play much lower, due to larger chamber,  like 186Horn, but better.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 6:43pm
There has got to be a mistake somewhere with these horn lengths---if you put a cross section of both cabinets side by side then it is quite obvious that the path length of the 1850 is longer than the Afterburner and it also has a much better expansion rate than the Vega--in the 1850 design the driver chasis is also positioned right back against the top rear corner of the cabinet--in the Vega design the driver is positioned nearly halfway along the top of the cabinet as the magnet clears the quite acute angle of the "heatsink" by a considerable distance---as regards larger chamber improving performance then all you have to do is leave out the seperating piece on the 1850 thus bringing the sealed void part of the cabinet into play and thereby increasing the chamber size.
I am not saying that the Vega is a crap design as I stated earlier--I would like to listen to both cabinets loaded with the same High quality driver(PD1850 or Void) as the two designs are very similar in a lot of ways but I still think that the 1850 would have the edge on the Afterburner---And an Afterburner with its original factory fitted driver would not give you anywhere near what a PD loaded 1850 will.
Just in case there are any Afterburner owners watching this--a little tip is to periodically check that the eight tiny nuts that hold the driver in place are tight (use loctite or locking washers) as these vibrate loose in use and are very often not tightened enough on supply from the factory as well--we have finished up with one driver being held in place by only two nuts as you do not realise that they have fallen off the studs as they stick to the magnet--hence no rattles inside the cabinet to tell you what is happening.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

There has got to be a mistake somewhere with these horn lengths---


http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=hug&m=40882



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Re: On apparent discrepancies between mouth size and reported response of bass horns

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Hi Peter,

Well, I don’t know about the respected bit, but I’ll try and explain where I’m coming from with my horn designs.

If you look at the 1850 horn on the speakerplans site you will see that the response does drop off like a rock below its cutoff point. The horn length is 1.59 meters or 62.59 inches. This equates to a full wavelength frequency of 216.77 Hz. So divide by 4 to get the quarter wavelength figure of 54.19 Hz. Again if you look at the plot you will see it fall sharply below 54 Hz, I also quote the cutoff frequency and state that the design is good down to 54 Hz. I also assume that at least 2 horns will be used in a stack and preferably 4. So I can’t see the problem or see why you could have a problem with this. If I quote that 2 horns have a cutoff of 30 Hz then I would be lying, but I don’t do this.

Concerning the HD 15 horn, I do quote that the design will operate down to 52 Hz which for one cabinet would be impossible, but it does state that it must be used in a stack of at least 6 cabinets. When used as such the combined horn mouth and extra horn length that can be achieved by combining horns will give a new cutoff of 52 Hz. Also note that I still say you should use a reflex or bandpass type cabinet below these horns to get a fully extended bass response below 50 Hz.

The 186 horn is meant to be used singly and with higher Qts drivers than a horn normally requires. This and an over sized rear chamber can give you a shallower rolloff below cutoff. This is depicted in the response, but you will also see that the cutoff has been raised in frequency from what the horn length dictates it should be. This is again due to the rear chamber being too large, a smaller rear chamber with a lower Qts driver will have a lower cutoff (or a cutoff that behaves predictably and is true to the 4/WL rule) and an over sized rear chamber will tend to shift the cutoff up in frequency and give a shallower rolloff, especially with drivers with a higher than recommended Qts and low BL. While not ideal I do prefer listening to horns with drivers with a higher than required Qts, good for the lounge but not good if you need a quick transient response and loads of SPL like at a concert.

So I hope that has explained the figures behind the designs. I always assume that my designs will be used in multiples. This is large scale PA for big venues and no one is going to use just one small 15” horn in there PA system, well I hope not. So my mouth areas are calculated assuming that a minimum of 2 1850 horns will be used together and 6 of the HD 15 horns will be used in one stack.

After liasing with David McBean, his wonderful Horn Response program (ver 5.60 and above) now lets you calculate the response for multiple horns. While not usable for everyone it’s really helpful in the PA world where multiples are the norm.

 each.

Best wishes and happy resonating,

Rog Mogale.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 7:25pm
Cerwin Vega Claim Frequency response down to 30hz on the Afterburner which is an absolute joke, so I certainly would not take any notice of their horn length claims.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 March 2008 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

Cerwin Vega Claim Frequency response down to 30hz on the Afterburner which is an absolute joke, so I certainly would not take any notice of their horn length claims.


I think you need to do your homework mate.

Cerwin Vega are the guy's who first produced 'C' type folded horn subs for the consumer market", and then everyone else copied them. So maybe you should take notice of their "horn lengths".LOL

"I think" The Vega website does say you need 6x cabs stacked to get 30hz.

However, 1x AB36/SL36 ply copy,  with decent driver, will easily get down to low 40's. Large chamber+High Xmax/High BL driver will assure this.

There are numerous copies of the plan on this site, and suprise, suprise, the horn length works out to 6ft.Clap

PM Three-Bee, He is the onsite Cerwin Vega guru, and will tell you everything else you need to know.


Edited by levyte357 - 08 March 2008 at 8:38pm
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