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Cerwin Vega CV5000 Bass Duties

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DubSirenSpecialist View Drop Down
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    Posted: 06 November 2012 at 11:05am
As you could guess by the title, I run a Cerwin Vega CV5000 on my bass duties. Its meant to run 2500wpc at 2ohm stereo, but I don't think it gives that, it just seems to clip so easily for such a hefty wattage amp, and doesn't seem to give much output before it clips, bit gutting because it cost me £700 bn, any suggestions to sort this? Went from C-Audio SR707 MK1s to this and they're half the wattage yet seem to give double the power? Don't know if its anything to do with the class of the amp, just really unimpressed with it if I'm honest.

Any help is appreciated
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnplayerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 5:59am
You should not be having a problem at all. I got 4 cv 5000 and they outperform my prior purchase of marathon ma 5050. The massive power supply and the capacitance you need is there. I would point out that I run all my amplifiers in mono 8 ohm bridge mode. Even with one amp in stereo on my 2000 watt quad cabs one amplifier can just barely do the job. Two in mono and its off to the races.
 
Almost all amplifiers will say they are stable down to 2 ohms but none of them say for how long. Most of the time this is momentary. You need to keep your ohms load at 8 ohms and you will find you will get better base. Add a driver in series if you have to, to get your ohms up.
 
Secondly don't limit that massive power supply, this puppy wants a 20 amp circuit to suck on minimum for solid performance. If you can give it 30 all the better, and yes this means one amplifier per circuit. Almost all pro amps of decent wattage need a dedicated line for full output, otherwise may as well shrink the transformer.
 
Forget about 2 ohm loading, this isn't class d mono block crap bass you get out of driving 2ohm load in the car because your power supply the battery, is limited. I tell car buffs stay to 4 ohms per coil minimum and use more amplifiers. 2 more batteries in the trunk for each pair of amps on each sub and your getting good bass, not crap drap loose ghetto base.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DubSirenSpecialist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:53am
Hi thanks for the reply!

I don't run it 2ohm stereo, I run 4ohm parallel (stereo with one input, quite handy actually) which means its meant to be giving me 1800w/pc, yet it doesn't sound like that. It sounds more like a lower wattage amp, because I can't really drive it that much before it clips. I have it on bass/sub duties crossed at about 120Hz, HPF at 30Hz as not to waste power on frequencies you can't hear anyway, as soon as I crank the bass knob on my preamp it just goes straight to clip. A real pain because I could really get my bass binns working hard off my old C-Audios, I was hesitant to stop using them because they gave so much, I was worried this would happen from the start. Always had the plan that if these perform well I'd get another, but I've been put off.

I don't run the amp in bridge, I find that it alters the sound itself. In bridge mode I find that the amp just gives out all the gutsy real bottom end (50Hz and below) and nothing else, yeah you can feel the bassline but I wanna hear it too, in bridge you can't make the notes out, all it is, is rumble. Yeah it doesn't sound to bad, but once again, goes straight to clip as soon as it gets going.

Only problem is that most venues I play are pubs and small clubs, who can't offer the technical needs of today. Most places I play only have 13A sockets dotted about. Whenever I run my system, all my amps have Ceeform plugs, either 16A or 32A. I have to use adapters so that they can run off a wall supply. Whenever I run the CV5000 in this situation I run it on its own socket, the 2 way socket all to itself so its not having to share power. Maybe this could be it, the only problem is that I'm ready to use 16A/32A outlets, most places just don't have them.

Thanks again for your help and feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 11:59am
This is why the CV 5000 is disappointing.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/3292/cv50007.jpg





Examples of decent China Heavy amps, for 4 ohm action.

Naphon HI-1400


DarQ PA18/Soundstandard CA18


Originally posted by DubSirenSpecialist DubSirenSpecialist wrote:

As you could guess by the title, I run a Cerwin Vega CV5000 on my bass duties. Its meant to run 2500wpc at 2ohm stereo, but I don't think it gives that, it just seems to clip so easily for such a hefty wattage amp, and doesn't seem to give much output before it clips, bit gutting because it cost me £700 bn, any suggestions to sort this? Went from C-Audio SR707 MK1s to this and they're half the wattage yet seem to give double the power? Don't know if its anything to do with the class of the amp, just really unimpressed with it if I'm honest.

Any help is appreciated


"Dub siren", you didn't see this thread before buying amp?

http://forum.speakerplans.com/cerwin-vega-cv5000_topic41807_page1.html




Edited by levyte357- - 31 December 2012 at 12:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 1:53pm
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:

This is why the CV 5000 is disappointing.





 not many output transistors at all for a 5k amp?  like the darg has about 30/32 each side something like that..heard thay can do damaged too spanking scoops..

Edited by Dub Specialist - 01 January 2013 at 8:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by DubSirenSpecialist DubSirenSpecialist wrote:

I don't run it 2ohm stereo, I run 4ohm parallel (stereo with one input, quite handy actually) which means its meant to be giving me 1800w/pc, yet it doesn't sound like that. It sounds more like a lower wattage amp, because I can't really drive it that much before it clips. I have it on bass/sub duties crossed at about 120Hz, HPF at 30Hz as not to waste power on frequencies you can't hear anyway, as soon as I crank the bass knob on my preamp it just goes straight to clip. A real pain because I could really get my bass binns working hard off my old C-Audios, I was hesitant to stop using them because they gave so much, I was worried this would happen from the start. Always had the plan that if these perform well I'd get another, but I've been put off.

Even with that relatively small amount of output devices (10-12 per channel), it's not too far fedged to get close to 1800 Watts into a 4 Ohm load if the thermal resistance from output devices to the heatsink is good with a steady stream of air blowing over the fins. Long term reliability remains to be seen with semiconductors working on the very edge of their safe operating area, but the power should be there when the amp is in good working order.
I don't know the topology of the CV-5000, but assuming it's a design with two secondary power supply rails (Class H), it sounds like it's only running on the first (lower voltage) supply rails and therefor only putting out about 1/3 of the power it normally would. I would have the amp bench tested first. Even if the amp can't put out it's advertised ~1800 Watt in 4 Ohm per channel, keep in mind that something like 1500-1600 Watts, is only a small difference dB SPL wise. The difference you explained, is like an amplifier putting out only a few hundred Watts.

Originally posted by DubSirenSpecialist DubSirenSpecialist wrote:

I don't run the amp in bridge, I find that it alters the sound itself. In bridge mode I find that the amp just gives out all the gutsy real bottom end (50Hz and below) and nothing else, yeah you can feel the bassline but I wanna hear it too, in bridge you can't make the notes out, all it is, is rumble. Yeah it doesn't sound to bad, but once again, goes straight to clip as soon as it gets going.

There shouldn't be any difference in sound/frequency respons in bridge mode compared to running in stereo or parallel mono. This is an indication something isn't right, whether it's a problem in the amplifier or external wiring, don't know, but something is wrong.

Originally posted by DubSirenSpecialist DubSirenSpecialist wrote:

Only problem is that most venues I play are pubs and small clubs, who can't offer the technical needs of today. Most places I play only have 13A sockets dotted about. Whenever I run my system, all my amps have Ceeform plugs, either 16A or 32A. I have to use adapters so that they can run off a wall supply. Whenever I run the CV5000 in this situation I run it on its own socket, the 2 way socket all to itself so its not having to share power. Maybe this could be it, the only problem is that I'm ready to use 16A/32A outlets, most places just don't have them.

An amp of that power should work just fine from a 13A outlet, unless you want/need to run a continuous 50Hz sinewave @ 2x 1800Watts/4 Ohm. Even hard compressed music can't use up a 13A outlet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnplayerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:04pm
I don't know much about uploading pictures, however my cv 5000 are fully loaded with 16 output transistors per channel. Those pictures are misinformation, quick reposting bad info. Dave in Canada

Edited by johnplayerson - 31 December 2012 at 8:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by johnplayerson johnplayerson wrote:

I don't know much about uploading pictures, however my cv 5000 are fully loaded with 16 output transistors per channel. Those pictures are misinformation, quick reposting bad info. Dave in Canada


You're saying those are not CV-5000s?

How about an internal pic then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnplayerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:15pm
give me your email, and you can post it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnplayerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:20pm
Yes the cv 5000 in that picture is missing output transistors. They ship with 16 per channel. I don't know how to post pictures so post me an email and I can send the internal pic of the cv 5000. It may be that they started out giving everyone a Samson sx 3200 with an overbuilt power supply but this is no longer the case.

Edited by johnplayerson - 31 December 2012 at 8:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnplayerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 December 2012 at 8:33pm
Maybe the thread author can advise us of the production date on the back of his unit, and the amount of output transistors by taking off his cover. ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnplayerson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 January 2013 at 12:19am
In any event the marathon ma 5050s I have got 18 output transistors per channel , two more per channel than the cerwin vega cv 5000,  yet still suck compared to the cv 5000, The other chaps suggestion that something else may be wrong is probably correct in your case.
 
General rule of thumb is that you need 10 times the power to double the sound or spl. so to double 100 watts you need 1000. and to double again you will need 10000 watts.  This is why I always bridge into 8 ohms, because anywhere well over 1000 watts your getting pretty much all you can. If all else fails bridge the amplifier and use it that way.
 
Other amplifiers that only run on 12 output transistors per channel (4 less per channel than the cv 5000) such as the expensive qsc rmx 5050 or the cheapo phonic xp 5000 claim to have the same power levels as the cv 5000, so again something else has got to be wrong.
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