Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Advanced Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Crossover phase help
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Crossover phase help

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
Message
kr1sounds View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 28 June 2014
Location: ThePromiseLand
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kr1sounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Crossover phase help
    Posted: 25 April 2015 at 1:03am

From top to bottom - hi, hi mid, low mid, bass
its a 12 db/octave crossover im designing - 1st time so not really familiar with what the phases are like on them . I'm a bit confused on what may be out of phase. can anyone help?

by the way ignore the separation and labels its for a preamp & its not finished either Smile



Edited by kr1sounds - 25 April 2015 at 1:12am
I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com
Back to Top
odc04r View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 12 July 2006
Location: Sarfampton
Status: Offline
Points: 5483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 11:54am
All the op amps seem to be non inverting unity gain buffers with various filtering around them so all the outputs should be in phase together already.

Why don't you simulate it and check with LTSpice or similar

Back to Top
kr1sounds View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 28 June 2014
Location: ThePromiseLand
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kr1sounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 12:09pm
Thanks

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/  << which software do i download theres many 
I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com
Back to Top
Earplug View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 03 January 2012
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 7216
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 12:20pm
Yes, all Sallen-Key filters. More info and equations here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sallen%E2%80%93Key_topology


Earplugs Are For Wimps!
Back to Top
kr1sounds View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 28 June 2014
Location: ThePromiseLand
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kr1sounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 12:33pm
http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/41-10/phase_relations.html - there's two tables about 3/4 the way down and it's saying that single pole sallen key filters would be inverted in phase -  so my bass and treble would be inverted but the low and high mids fine. no?

LOW-PASS FILTERS
FILTER TOPOLOGYSINGLE PHASEPHASE VARIATION
Single-Pole, PassiveIn-Phase0° to –90°
Single-Pole, ActiveInverted180° to 90°
2-Pole, Sallen-KeyIn-Phase0° to –180°
2-Pole, Multiple FeedbackInverted180° to 0°
2-Pole, State VariableInverted180° to 0°
2-Pole, Biquad Lowpass1In-Phase0° to –180°
2-Pole, Biquad Lowpass2Inverted180° to 0°

 

HIGH-PASS FILTERS
FILTER TOPOLOGYSINGLE PHASEPHASE VARIATION
Single-Pole, PassiveIn-Phase–90° to 0°
Single-Pole, ActiveInverted–90° to –180°
2-Pole, Sallen-KeyIn-Phase180° to 0°
2-Pole, Multiple FeedbackInverted0° to –180°
2-Pole, State VariableInverted0° to –180°
2-Pole, BiquadInverted0° to –180°

I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com
Back to Top
Earplug View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 03 January 2012
Location: Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 7216
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 12:50pm
All right, I must admit that I´ve never seen some of those topographies, eg the single pole active. Interesting, but what you have are the basic 2-pole version. All in phase.




Edited by Earplug - 25 April 2015 at 12:51pm
Earplugs Are For Wimps!
Back to Top
kr1sounds View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 28 June 2014
Location: ThePromiseLand
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kr1sounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 1:13pm
Ok, cheers. Do you know anything about LTSpice? I want to sim a few things in there
I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com
Back to Top
odc04r View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 12 July 2006
Location: Sarfampton
Status: Offline
Points: 5483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 1:31pm
I use it quite a bit, what do you want to know exactly? There are a lot of good tutorials on the web but that goes without saying.

Op amp filters can be inverting or non inverting depending on how you implement them. Inverting buffers tend to be preferred if you need a gain less than unity but then you have to be more careful about phase of course.

Now here is a fun thing about LTspice - you can use as your input actual .wav music files. The simulation takes a long time even on a fast PC so I only tend to process about 20s of a track but you can put real audio files into your filter designs and then listen to them afterwards when they have been processed. That's pretty cool.


Back to Top
kr1sounds View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 28 June 2014
Location: ThePromiseLand
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kr1sounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 1:38pm
I want to see how it sounds if possible, group delay & whatever else is available. i also want to see what how 20 band eq i've designed goes..
I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com
Back to Top
kr1sounds View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 28 June 2014
Location: ThePromiseLand
Status: Offline
Points: 920
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kr1sounds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 2:42pm

Thats the final version with output buffers and volume control which just reminded me i need to add switches
I MAN SERVE SELASSIE CONTINUALLY... NO MATTER WHAT THE WEAK HEART SAY

fostonshfs.webs.com
Back to Top
audiomik View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 06 April 2010
Location: Bath, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2962
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audiomik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 4:29pm
you could try using all-pass filters to linearise your phase errors for each band of output

Mik
Warning! May contain Nuts
plus springs, washers, screws, etc, etc.
Back to Top
Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 02 April 2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5174
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 April 2015 at 7:11pm
Here is a video I made sometime ago showing the differences in Crossover Slopes versus Phase.

It may give you an idea on what to expect at 12 dB per octave.



Best Regards,


Edited by Elliot Thompson - 25 April 2015 at 7:12pm
Elliot Thompson
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.063 seconds.