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crown vs lab gruppen

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csg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote csg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 October 2008 at 10:36pm
you want low impedence stability ?
 
Lab gruppen. stable to any (ANY) load - and ive tried it. Ive never managed to upset any labs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chilli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 October 2008 at 5:41pm
well...

ran the crown at the weekend instead of the usual lab gruppen 6400 and i have to say it was mighty impressive, for the type of music being played (breakcore/electro/techno) it totally drove the bottom end, i had many comments that the rig was the best they'd heard it, so i'm inclined to believe them.

Whether the grunt was dirty was hard to fathom with the program material, but lets just say that next time i'm doing a techno event, then i'll put up with the 40 odd kg (plus flightcase), but probably not if its a more corporate do...

a pretty good buy for £499 i'd say...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 October 2008 at 1:30pm
Originally posted by chilli chilli wrote:

well...

ran the crown at the weekend instead of the usual lab gruppen 6400 and i have to say it was mighty impressive, for the type of music being played (breakcore/electro/techno) it totally drove the bottom end, i had many comments that the rig was the best they'd heard it, so i'm inclined to believe them.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carrol sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 9:07pm

After lab gruppen 6400 amp 30 amp fuse blown. Had to get two macro tech 5002 for vdosc subs. I couldn't believe the different. The subs came to life. So I don't agree with you guys that believe that swithing power supplies amps can produces the same amount of power as the capacitor driven amp. Because of the find we are changing the lab gruppen 6400 amplifiers on the subs with crown 5002. Sorry lab get rid of the vhf thing too. Really sucks. Do that and good amp for low,mids'highs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carrol sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 9:27pm
People in a van get the lab. Real sound company's have lots of help loading in and loading out the equipment. so making your racks lighter makes no since to me. I rather have real power than an amp that has to recreate the power. Put a meter on the power when using a switching power supply amp and you'll see all kinds of voltage swings. Then put a meter on the capacitor driven amp. voltage swing is much less. Fact of the matter is capacitor driven amplifiers can recover from one wave to the other by storing there power in capacitors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cilla.scope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 10:47pm
you are  talking utter rubbish.

Firstly "capacitor driven amp"? what are you on? all amps (transformer driven and switch mode driven) have capacitors on the PSU output.  You are right though, they do use the capacitors for bulkstorage, a transformer driven amp gets its capacitors refilled every 10ms,  a switch mode driven amp gets its capacitors filled 1000 times in the same time ... so they have less work to do.

Put a meter on a crap switch mode PSU and yes, it will have a lot of droop under load ... probably a lot more than average transformer driven amp. a GOOD switchmode however will have LESS droop/swing than even the best transformer driven amp.

Don't confuse the fact that a Macrotech 5002 is  a LOT better than Lab 6400  make you think that all the difference you hear is because one is transformer the other is switchmode, because its not.  The 5002 is simply better, it has a better PSU than the Lab and more silicon and current capacity in the output stage than the Lab. Not because the Lab has a switchmode PSU, but because it doesnt have a very good switchmode PSU.

Don't forget also that 2x MA5002VZ into 4R will give you 8kW ...  a Lab 6400 will give you half that (if you use the same ratings, 6400W is its music power, they do about 4K when measured the same way as a macrotech,) so basically, you had twice as much power, thats one reason it sounded better ... and secondly, the MA5002VZ has got the balls to drive sub, ie the current capacity, the Lab hasn't got it in the same way.

But you are quite wrong to put it down to being transformer and switch mode, because there are plenty of good switch mode amps out there that will kick ass, just like the MA5002 does.




Edited by cilla.scope - 03 January 2010 at 10:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 10:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carrol sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2010 at 11:46pm
Was only looking for the correct fuse when I came across this forum and was curious about what people were saying about the comparison of the two amps in relationship of my finding when going from the lab to the macrotech, sorry for the confusion. All amps do have capacitors. I do agree that some swithing power supply amps do sound really good, but only when there tremendously over rated on there power specs. My personnel feeling are to use a very high quality swithing power supply amps for low,mid and high. I want my low mid and hi boxes to be clear. I don't mind the subs to be a little dirty. I looking for the long term power ratings, not short term or music Power ratings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cilla.scope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2010 at 1:20am
Like I said,  there are some good switchmode driven amps out there, that will kick ass on sub.  You can also find transformer driven amps that are crap for sub ... 

Sub is where peak drive current capability starts to show the good from the bad, and where you need to really put the power in, so its often the one where you notice the limitations of the weaker amps. A good amp (whether transformer or switchmode) will always sound impressive when put up agaisnt its weaker brothers, and thats what you heard when you put a Lab 64 up agaisnt  8kW of Crown ... hardly a suprise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carrol sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2010 at 2:08am
Again that's not what most people on this forum say about the crown. Most post are downing the 5002, and saying lab gruppen(6400) has more power. Again my responce goes to those who disagree. Again over rating a switching amp is a must. I work in this environment with large pa's and generally switching amps sound cleaner on larger systems but lack that in the sub. companies that don't lack seem to use 5002 or the crest amps or really over power the subs with larger format switching amps or use more of them. I'm just going off what I hear and work with everyday. In regards to the lab amp there's only one thing I would do differently is give the option to bypass the VHF mode. I can see where helps protect the speakers especially compression drivers but the amp should never mute itself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Father-Francis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2010 at 8:59am
Velkom to de club , I think crown is doggy poo but thats just me LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cilla.scope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2010 at 10:46am
Being light is quite handy.  I think switchmode amps have had a bad reputation in the past, because its almost impossible to design a truly bad transformer based supply, but there are a few thousand ways to mess up the design of a switchmode supply and some of the early designs around didn't really do what they promised. As the designs have improved and adapted to the specialised needs of high power audio, i think the reputation will be restored. Ultimately, switch mode supplies have the ability to outperform transformer based supplies and it won;t be long before no one wants the old heavy lumps .... im pretty sure I wouldn't want a rack with 200kg of transformer amps in it.
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