dual 12 mid cab?

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   i was thinking about designing a dual 12" mids cab, two of which i would stack on to my b&c sub18's.
in mind i had the Fane Sovereign Pro 12-500 which i sim'd two drivers in a reflex cab with 75l tuned to 65ish hz and with 2 cabs i could get a continuous spl of 129db at 500w pretty flat up to 1000hz where i would cross them over to horns. does anyone have any insight on the idea? also, i am on a tight budget so a multi thousand euro system is way out of reach 
right now i have 2 sub 18's and db technologies cromo 12 midtops which i would want to replace with the dual 12 mid cabinets and 2 Eighteensound HD1480T horns

best regards

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ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: dual 12 mid cab? Posted: 24 March 2013 at 11:42pm
	i was thinking about designing a dual 12" mids cab, two of which i would stack on to my b&c sub18's. in mind i had the Fane Sovereign Pro 12-500 which i sim'd two drivers in a reflex cab with 75l tuned to 65ish hz and with 2 cabs i could get a continuous spl of 129db at 500w pretty flat up to 1000hz where i would cross them over to horns. does anyone have any insight on the idea? also, i am on a tight budget so a multi thousand euro system is way out of reach right now i have 2 sub 18's and db technologies cromo 12 midtops which i would want to replace with the dual 12 mid cabinets and 2 Eighteensound HD1480T horns best regards

_djk_ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002	Post Options Post Reply Quote _djk_ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2013 at 9:55am
	Those look like a very nice driver. Here is a similar Eminence driver (0.84dB more efficient), the Delta Pro 12a in a 50hz ported box crossed to a large format compression driver around 1.2Khz ant to my PPSL for the low end at around 150hz. The tops are flat to 50hz on their own for use on small jobs, FOH tops in medium-to-large jobs, and as side or front fills in the largest gigs with dual 12 horn mids. Edited by _djk_ - 25 March 2013 at 9:57am
	djk

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2013 at 10:01am
	so you think it will work, just slapping these drivers in, tuning it at 65hz and using that as mid over the sub, crossed at 100hz? that would make me a very happy man!! also, neat looking system you to there!

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2013 at 10:53am
	could you tell me what the volume of that cab is? looks like 100l for the two 12's? i'm just unsure of what volume i should use for the design

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 25 March 2013 at 2:14pm
	i sim'd the mids, with the figures of the sketch. have to say, i think it woud work out very well, as the sensitivity also is quite hich with the fane's in the midtop cab. as for the mids, the average sensitivity lies at 100.6db, so with 500w rms one cab will get me a good 127.5db with 130.5db peaks and i would build at least two of them and for my purposes 130.5db rms for the midtop are more than sufficient. the eighteensound HD1480T also does 127db rms per driver, so the whole systen should sound really nice and balanced. does anyone have any input to the whole thing, specifically the design of the midtop? best regards edit: the purple line is the b&c sub18 and the green is my midcab. also, the chamber for the fane's has 80litres without drivers, so with i roughly guessed 70 with the drivers in, thus the port length of 190mm Edited by ziontrainsound - 25 March 2013 at 2:25pm

_djk_ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002	Post Options Post Reply Quote _djk_ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2013 at 2:05pm
	Mine are perhaps a bit larger than what you have in mind, 140L tuned to 50hz. You have the right idea though, check it in a speaker program. . Edited by _djk_ - 26 March 2013 at 2:22pm
	djk

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2013 at 7:16pm
	i wanted to keep mine as compact as possible, so i think i'll compromise to something around 110l-ish and tune it to 50, i'll sim it when i get home tomorrow, so it should give me enough bass response and for the actual mids over a few hundred hz the box size & tuning become rather irrelevant anyway. you recon that would work?

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2013 at 7:28pm
	also, one thing confuses me in your picture, namely the sensitivity of the driver, because on 8r speakers the 1w = 2.83v spl, yet on your picture there are two different values for the sensitivity... am i missing something? best regards

_djk_ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002	Post Options Post Reply Quote _djk_ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2013 at 8:22pm
	The top graph is 2.83V, the second is 800W on the dual 12, the third is 1200W on the sub. It's all marked and color coded. 2.83V is 2W since both designs are 4Ω, perhaps that is what is confusing?
	djk

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2013 at 8:29pm
	okay it makes sense now, thanks! i could also use the eminence delta pro 12's, but here they're roughly 40 euros more expensive than the fane ones which i had in mind, but they should do! i'll post sims of a larger box in a couple hours or tomorrow morning with a larger box tuned to 50hz. the problem is that in winisd the gain always goes to 0db towards 1khz, but can i just assume that the dual 12's will play flat to 1khz or should i buy bassbox pro to check that?

ziontrainsound Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Registered User Joined: 14 July 2012 Location: Vienna Status: Offline Points: 21	Post Options Post Reply Quote ziontrainsound Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 26 March 2013 at 10:26pm
	i simulated a 110l mid cabinet, subtracting 3.5l per driver, becasue i noticed that 5l could't be right since my rcf 18's have 5.5l displacement. anyway, i tuned it to around 60hz, which give me a nice flat curve with a slight boost on the 100hz mark for the kick/high bass. i have one more question though: do i need to have the 12's seperated from the hf horn or can i have them in one chamber? that would save space and thus make the cab a lot lighter. cheers

_djk_ Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 23 November 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 6002	Post Options Post Reply Quote _djk_ Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 29 March 2013 at 10:28am
	"i could also use the eminence delta pro 12's, but here they're roughly 40 euros more expensive than the fane ones which i had in mind, " In the USA Eminence is very affordable, on your side of the pond I might use the Fane. Blue Aran pricing. Fane Sovereign Pro 12-500 £103.18 inc VAT Eminence Delta Pro 12 £103.02 (I assume that includes VAT?) In the USA the Eminence Delta Pro 12 costs me $83 at 10+ quantity, the Fane Sovereign Pro 12-500 is $155 (easy choice). "i have one more question though: do i need to have the 12's seperated from the hf horn or can i have them in one chamber? that would save space and thus make the cab a lot lighter. cheers" One common cabinet is OK. If the horn is really thin or flimsy I add Moretite caulk (a putty-like substance) to the backside, or a layer of the spray-foam-in-a-can. Edited by _djk_ - 29 March 2013 at 10:51am
	djk