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Experience according to T/S parameters and more |
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Ray666 
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Joined: 12 July 2005 Location: Estonia Status: Offline Points: 81 |
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 Topic: Experience according to T/S parameters and morePosted: 03 April 2016 at 1:32am |
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Hi,
I was wondering about two driver manufacturers and how much they tend to lie about their products. My consern is that I want to build a new 3way system, but it seems to me that the T/S parameters of the manufactured drivers are more like a pig in a sack. I have a privilege to chose from faital pro and RCF drivers. Are the specs provided trustworthy from these manufacturers? If you have any first hand experience, what so ever, according to these drivers below, it would be awsome if you could share the force and knowledge with me. Drivers of interest: Faital 18XL1600 18HW1070 15HP1020 15HP1060 HF148 RCF LF18X401 Mb15N401 ND850 2.0 ND950 2.0 Second Question: I know it depends on millions of factors, but what are your two cents when determing how good the high frequency driver sound in real life, when you do not have a chance to test suitable drivers out in person? Third question: Has anyone ever had positive outcome when using regular closed cabin design for 15 inch mid front playing driver? Does the low end drop to dramatically in field situations when cutting lets say around 90 hz and above, or does it make it sound clearer when the group delay and phase shifts are not in the way? Any input is appreciated. Thanks in advance. Ray |
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bitSmasher
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Joined: 23 June 2012 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 2295 |
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Posted: 03 April 2016 at 1:43am |
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I want to jump on the tail of the 2nd question to ask...
If you have 2 boxes, both loaded with identical 15" close enough to the same volume, one reflex tuned to 40hz and the other sealed How do they compare when both high passed well above port tuning, ie 90hz and up as above Very curious about sealed boxes for mid bass impact, but does hpf on reflex reduce / avoid potential GD and phase issues? |
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https://www.instagram.com/batteryacidsoundsystem/
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all bass
Old Croc
Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855 |
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Posted: 03 April 2016 at 5:42am |
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Closed box is better, if you don't need the extra low end that the port offers!
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lucasuk86
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Posted: 03 April 2016 at 8:33am |
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Elliot Thompson
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Posted: 03 April 2016 at 11:47am |
TS Parameters are based on the loudspeaker residing in free air. That means the loudspeaker is not residing in the box. Almost all brands will show a slight deviation in their figures based upon the workmanship of the assembly. In addition to the workmanship of the assembly, as the loudspeaker breaks in, the TS Parameters will deviate as well. In order for the TS Parameters to match the advertised specs with a slight deviation, the loudspeaker must be placed in an equivalent of greater size than, the VAS of the loudspeaker’s specification. If the internal chamber is smaller than the VAS of the loudspeaker specification in free air, you can guarantee the TS Parameters will change. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 03 April 2016 at 11:50am |
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Elliot Thompson
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Ray666
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Posted: 04 April 2016 at 11:09am |
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Thank you for your input Elliot. Is there some kind of information link where i can read, how, if and what specifications would change when in lower volume box than VAS?
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Elliot Thompson
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Posted: 05 April 2016 at 1:44pm |
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You can always contact the manufacture of the loudspeaker in question to give you the answers if need be. When the enclosure does not correlate to the VAS requirements of the loudspeaker in free-air, the Q's and fs will change. There is no way to determine the changes numerically in a Loudspeaker Simulator. One must measure the parameters in the enclosure to find the answer. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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Crashpc
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Posted: 10 June 2016 at 2:43pm |
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I'll get to the full response later. Now it's party time, TGIF....
I would not consider Vas as a requirement. It is a parameter. You can put speakers in smaller volumes than its Vas, and it will do very good-as intended job. Also parameters will change the same way with greater speaker box volume as with smaller speaker box volume. It will be just different amount in measured values. Use google to see what Vas really means.(equivalent air volume which would make pressure resistance in the same amount as speaker membrane). |
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Elliot Thompson
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Posted: 10 June 2016 at 2:50pm |
Without knowing the VAS you will not be able to tune the box correctly. VAS, fs & Qts is needed to build an enclosure around the loudspeaker to ensure optimum performance. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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Elliot Thompson
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Posted: 10 June 2016 at 3:28pm |
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The main reason many disregard the VAS is due to an excuse. Such as the box is going to be too big, the box is going to be too heavy or, my wife will not allow me to build such a cabinet of that size. The end result is either having a box ring like a bell or offer no bass without a heavy dose of equalisation. Best Regards,
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Elliot Thompson
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Crashpc
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Posted: 10 June 2016 at 4:53pm |
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Elliot: I didn't say anything about not knowing the value. We know it. We just use it with different intentions.
I don't disregard vas as a parameter. It is not just the parameter which sets your box volume. It has close to nothing to do with it. Vas sets your ballpark, but absolutely not drives you with exact solution and volume. Using your speaker in volumes smaller than Vas is perfectly doanle, workable, whaatever. And brings even some advantages. |
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Nikon and Canon people should not be married to each other. Why did you let this happen?
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Elliot Thompson
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Posted: 10 June 2016 at 5:50pm |
What you are suggesting is a compromise in which the majority of builders do everyday. Those builders never mentioned the consequences of making such compromises from a performance standpoint in which I am bringing to your attention. It is not the loudspeakers fault the designer cannot accommodate the woofers requirements in order to achieve optimum performance. There are hundreds of woofers a user can buy in which he/she does not need to make such compromises when they cannot accommodate the VAS requirements of the woofer to achieve optimum performance. However, when those who know nothing about loudspeakers buy a woofer based upon a lot of praise from others in which, the novice designs a compact enclosure, that in turn does not meet up to his or hers expectations, those same people that he/she took the advice from, never told him/her how important VAS will play a factor on the overall performance of the loudspeaker before building the enclosure. The end result will be the novice user buying more speakers and spending more money trying to achieve on what they assume would be an easy task. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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Ray666 wrote: