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Fane 18XB speaker box - building a soundsystem

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ubersafka View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 April 2017 at 5:35pm
Hey speakerplans, my plan is to build a soundsystem within the next few months before my school is over, as I can get the plywood for -30% and all the tools I will need are easily available.
My soundsystem would have two subs, two mids and a high top, piled up as a stack with at least the subs running in mono. Each driver will have its own cabinet. I would play them both out and inside, focusing on electronic music with lots of low frequencies (techno, dub, grime etc.), in a very similar style to reggae/dub soundsystems. Obviously with a single stack there is only so much power I can get, but I cannot afford any more than this.

My knowledge of everything involved is limited, but I've been googling for hours during the last few months and I've been trying to understand as much as I can so that I could build them within the next two months. Obviously the hardest part is matching the right drivers with the right cabinets and make my subs work well with the mids. Here is my current plan;

2 x Fane Colossus 18 XB's (35-80hz);

https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/colossus-18xb#tab-1

2 x Fane Sovereign 12-500 Pros for mids (80hz-1.5-2khz);

https://www.fane-international.com/view-product/SOVEREIGN-PRO-12-500

As for the high top I havent made much research but I thought about using
Monacors MHD-152;

https://www.monacor.com/en-us/monacor/products/components/speaker-technology/pa-tweeters-and-horn-drivers/mhd-152/

My plan was to put the Fanes in this design I found;



But then I also very recently found this fanes own cabinet design;



Now because the first design is a "half scoop" (rhino?) and not just a basic ported enclosure like the fanes, as I understand, it would give me a deeper bass. It would be more complex to build as it has some miter cutting and it wont show the angle, but is doable. Fanes design on the other hand looks very easy to build. Will it be worth the extra labor?

For amplifiers the best money-power ratio with enough watts to power 2 x 1000W rms subs seems to be Thomanns TSA 4-1300, allowing me to use a single amplifier for the whole stack;

https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tamp_tsa_4_1300.htm

I was also looking at Behringers iNuke 6000DSP, but then I'd need some random amplifier for the high top

https://www.thomann.de/gb/behringer_inuke_nu6000dsp.htm?ref=search_prv_8

Here is  also the WinISD graph for the midbass, tuned to 80hz in a 50liter basic ported enclosure;




The total cost of this, including amplifiers, plywood etc. would be around 2100-2300€.

Besides the sub enclosure, are there any other dangers I might face with this plan, something that my amateur speaker building brain is oblivious to?

Regards,

ubersafka







Edited by ubersafka - 12 April 2017 at 8:18am
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djeddie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2017 at 8:34pm
The first design, (definitely NOT a Rhino btw), is missing a lot of dimensions you'd need to build it, but to me seems bizarre as the port seems to expand then contract. It also might not give you deeper bass.

The second cab (the Fane design) is the one I'd go for to begin with. Just make sure you add all the cabinet bracing. The 18XB also goes well in the B&C Sub18 cabinet. (Just Google it and look at 'Images').

As for the mid cabinet, if you're always going to use it with the subs, why not go for a sealed cabinet?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2017 at 9:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ubersafka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 8:29am
Thanks for the replies,

Originally posted by djeddie djeddie wrote:

The second cab (the Fane design) is the one I'd go for to begin with. Just make sure you add all the cabinet bracing. The 18XB also goes well in the B&C Sub18 cabinet. (Just Google it and look at 'Images').

As for the mid cabinet, if you're always going to use it with the subs, why not go for a sealed cabinet?

I thought they would perform better in a ported enclosure (500W rms xmax 6, I thought they'd need a port), but yes they would always be used with the subs. If that is the case, sealed it is! I was looking at the B&C sub cabinet before, but it looks sort of weak to me.  I think I'll go with the fanes, as they have designed it specifically for the driver


Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:

http://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-12250tc-full-rangers_topic89634. - http://forum.speakerplans.com/fane-12250tc-full-rangers_topic89634.html

Wink

These were on my consideration list for the mids at some point, I read they had a pretty clear sound. However the 12500 pro has 500W RMS and xmax 6mm compared to the 12250tc's 250W RMS and xmax of something.

I wouldnt need a seperate high top though and its half the price, meaning I could get .. 4 of them. And I could plug all of them into t.amp TSA 4-1300.



Would it make sense to build a soundsystem with 2 x Fane 18 Colossus XB's with fanes own cabinet design, but instead of 2 x pro 12500 I would use 4 x fane 12 250TC's on top of the subs? It would be cheaper than 2 x pros with a high top.  It seems a little strange idea to have 4 x 12" on top of two subs, but I am not sure if there are any disadvantages, aside from it being very tall




Edited by ubersafka - 12 April 2017 at 12:39pm
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bob4 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bob4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by ubersafka ubersafka wrote:


These were on my consideration list for the mids at some point, I read they had a pretty clear sound. However the 12500 pro has 500W RMS and xmax 6mm compared to the 12250tc's 250W RMS and xmax of something.

Don't have time to comment on your other points, but consider that the difference in xmax between the two is marginal (like 0,7mm?). This means that both drivers have about the same volume displacement, read capability to "kick" /deliver bass. Fs is the same for both, around 50 Hz.  The sensitivity plots are also very similar below 1 kHz. 

The way I read this is that the higher power rating doesn't really mean the 12 500 can output more acoustic power (because of the very similar volume displacement capability). It just means that it can absorb more power (doubled power expressed in dB is just +3 dB). 

A higher power rating of a driver doesn't mean automatically that it's a better/superior driver. But this is very common fallacy/misconception that almost all audio newcomers have. Keep reading, about TS parameters etc….. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 3:21pm
check out the 200l designed for the 18xb

just a thouhht for ya
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ubersafka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 7:09pm
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Originally posted by bob4 bob4 wrote:



The way I read this is that the higher power rating doesn't really mean the 12 500 can output more acoustic power (because of the very similar volume displacement capability). It just means that it can absorb more power (doubled power expressed in dB is just +3 dB). 





I definitely thought it would have more impact and from my memory I thought the xmax of the TC was something like 3, thanks for the info! I do realize I should learn more, but my school where I study as a carpenter ends in June and we will be the last carpenters to ever graduate from there, after that they will no longer teach carpenting nor have the hall with all the tools, so my time for building these is very limited.



Originally posted by Dub Specialist Sound Dub Specialist Sound wrote:

check out the 200l designed for the 18xb

just a thouhht for ya


The second image is fanes own design, specifically designed for 18xb. They did have (i think) two older versions of it too, are you talking about one of those?


Currently the idea of 2x 18XB + 3 or 4x 12-250TC's is alluring, as I could go from one tall stack to 3 stacks in the future by adding one more subwoofer and two more mids, placing the subs next to each other instead of piling up. As a single stack with 4 250tc's it would be 2.7m high though.


Edited by ubersafka - 12 April 2017 at 7:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gen0me Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 7:35pm
Excursion of this bass-mid is not important. Will be used with brs that can be cut as he wants em.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djeddie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 7:54pm
Originally posted by ubersafka ubersafka wrote:

...They did have (i think) two older versions of it too, are you talking about one of those?


Try this link, for the Fane 200l cab
Chas n Dave : it's like Drum and Bass but with beards.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJ123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 9:09pm
the top design mini scoop seem like it would put out a heavier bass then then reflex design i might be wrong 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJ123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 9:14pm
here go cabinet similar to that onehttps     ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGdal8-U3pg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJ123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 April 2017 at 9:18pm
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