Feedback wanted for a new LMS / DSP |
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ArthurG
Young Croc Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: France - China Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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Posted: 03 October 2015 at 5:41pm |
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Hi Guys,
I'm in the final stage of product definition for an upcoming rack DSP (Loudspeaker management system). As the market is very competitive and the investment important, I can't mess up with the features. So I would to get your opinion on 2 points regarding this unit. First is about the way to control this LMS: I want to go with Wireless connection only. For that, we use an application processor (ARM Cortex) running an embedded Linux with full TCP/IP stack, 802.11 b/g/n Radio, MAC address, smartConfig AP client and DHCP server. When you power up the unit for the first time, it starts in DHCP mode. You can connect to it using WIFI with your phone or computer (it's like joining any network). Then you can control the unit with our PILOT software and work like that (in WIFI direct) or setup the unit in client mode to join an existing network (it handles WPA2 Personal and Enterprise security protocols). This way, you can control many units at once and continue to have internet access. That's basically how it works, I think you get the idea. The first question is do we still need a wired connection ? USB for point to point or RJ45 for TCP/IP Network. USB will add 15 dollars on street price (need another MCU). RJ45 will add also $15 (needs also another MCU). Moreover, it will complexify a lot the software, so for us its a problem with our limited resources. Knowing that the unit will be for the mid range market with tough competition, IMHO I think that in 2016, its useless to go wired. Our test shows very stable WIFI connection, even in crowed public places. So wired or not, what do you think ? Finally, the second and last question is about price. From our current BOM calculation, the plan is to reach less than $300 street price (excl. VAT). It's for a 2 IN x 8 OUT unit with 24bit 114dB converters, 96kHz sampling rate, 64bit internal precision accumulators, look-ahead compressor per input, noise gate per input, Feedback eliminator system, matrix routing, 48dB/oct crossovers, TrueRMS and PeakStop limiters per output, 8 filters (PEQ, High/low shelf, notch, BandPass, Phase, AllPass) per input and per output. It will also features an RTA Mic input with phantom power supply that allows complete measurement of a speaker (calibrated electret condenser Microphone sold separately). The measurement process is fully integrated in our PILOT Control software. You have in same window the measured speaker frequency curve / phase (like SmaartLive) and the DSP PEQ settings to see in real time the effect of the filters (we can generate pink/white noise, MLS, sweep, sinewave and we can display the curve with many smoothing/time options). Last but not least, you have the Wireless connection. It will be backed with a 3 years warranty. Do you think its competitive ? and more important, will you buy one ? or do you think the rack DSP market is dead because you prefer to have DSP integrated in the amplifier ? Thanks in advance for all the opinions, its very valuable to me --Arthur PS: If no changes in the plan/features, official launch will be for Prolight Sound 2016 in Guangzhou (end of February 2016) Edited by ArthurG - 05 October 2015 at 9:33pm |
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5176 |
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For a street price of $300.00 definitely have the wired option. Not everyone within that spending range is going to use wireless. Most will use wired just to see a larger screen on their laptop computer to manipulate the settings. Best Regards, Edited by Elliot Thompson - 03 October 2015 at 6:03pm |
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Elliot Thompson
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ArthurG
Young Croc Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: France - China Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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Thanks Elliot for your input. But what's the difference of being connected by WIFI and manipulate the settings on your laptop screen, and being connected by wire (so one more operation) and also manipulate the settings on the screen ? very serious question. |
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Personally i dont care about wire if it is still programmable from the front plate.
The rest is quite good Arthur. One question regarding the RTA mic. Do you really need that? I never liked those auto eq functions and everyone i know use smaart to tune the system. So for me that is not important feature that just add to the cost. But that is only me. Send me more details on Skype. I am interested.
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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Shortrope
Young Croc Joined: 08 July 2013 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 1232 |
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For $300 and if the Wifi connection is as good as you say?...I'd buy one!
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My Tinnitus is coming along nicely!!
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Timebomb
Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2004 Location: Lancaster Status: Offline Points: 2717 |
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Sounds good, I think it will sell well at that price, im not aware of another 2 in 8 out in quite that price range, certainly not with allpass filters.
Personally i would like the USB option, mainly for the just in case scenario if the wifi fails. I wouldn't say it was essential though, id probably still buy one. Are there going to be any front panel controls or meters at all ?
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James Secker facebook.com/soundgearuk
James@soundgear.co.uk www.soundgear.co.uk |
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Elliot Thompson
Old Croc Joined: 02 April 2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 5176 |
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What if they decide to use their old Laptop and it does not offer the Wi-Fi option? The problem is not Wi-Fi capability, it is the very low price point you are selling your processor for. You are going to attract a lot of budget minded users. If you are not going for that market, you need to increase the cost to minimise the budget-minded user while, having those that are willing to spend more for convenience of Wi-Fi capability take your product more seriously. Best Regards, |
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Elliot Thompson
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ArthurG
Young Croc Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: France - China Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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Thanks for feedback Marjam It wont be any autoEQ feature, I hate it Its a proper measurement software that will do the same thing as Smaart and much much more. If we offer this function is for many reasons: - It's something that people use - Its free ! Not everybody has a paid version of Smaart (expensive) nor use pirated software - Its fully integrated in our DSP control software. No multiple screens to work with. Everything is in a single window for a fast and convenient operation. - No cost added except a XLR connector, an opamp and some passive parts (less than $3). The phantom power uses the same rail as the preamps. - Measurement software was developed years ago. it's stable, light on resources, and won't delay the product launch. No problem to talk about it on Skype --Arthur
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MarjanM
Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816 |
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Well, send me one when its ready. :-)
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Marjan Milosevic
MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713 |
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bass*en*mass
Old Croc Joined: 03 September 2009 Location: "unknown" Status: Offline Points: 4009 |
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wireless connection may struggle with wireless mics on stage and a crowded place with lots of smartphones..
(just experienced the mic issue today in a small venue, wouldnt want to put my trust in wifi only!) Other than that you unit seems competitive :) |
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ArthurG
Young Croc Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: France - China Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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I'm very surprised by your answer. It definitively brings me a different perspective. but well, we are in 2015, WIFI is integrated in every laptop for more than 15 years. I don't know anybody around me, even down to the level of my poor Chinese workers, that don't have WIFI. And a WIFI USB dongle cost $10 (http://www.amazon.com/Glam-Hobby-Mini-Sized-Portable-Wireless/dp/B014VI1BDQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443893404 ) I still don't see any advantage to go wired but looks like some disagree and I may be wrong And please don't be spoiled by the price ; even if it will be in the mid range market, performance and features are not. My target users and current distributors are professionals, rentals, doing lot of installation projects and also using stuff from likes of d&b and Martin. They expect high quality from me as with all my products. To reach this target, all our DSP calculations are done in 96kHz / 64bit double precision against 48KHz / 32 or 40bit for most of our competitors. In fact, I don't know any other unit that offers 96kHz with 64 bit double precision. The best I know are 96kHz but "only" 40bit. And I'm talking about units costing more than 1k... To match our price target, the real compromise is with the AD/DA converters. We use 114dB Cirrus Logic part that is featured in many high-end branded AV receivers from Pioneer, Marantz and Nad. But in Pro audio world, 114dB is not high-end. Expensive units use 120dB range models but we found they offer no benefit in AB listening test. The next step up in performance are the ones in 130dB range like ESS Sabre32 and Wolfson WM8972. Now we talk, and you can listen the difference, but it will add $150 on the street price ! Kind regards, --Arthur Edited by ArthurG - 03 October 2015 at 7:16pm |
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ArthurG
Young Croc Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: France - China Status: Offline Points: 976 |
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Thanks Bass*, you bring a very valid point I will ask to perform tests in various crowded public places to see how it works Kind regards, --Arthur
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