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Fiberglass horn for BMS 4595 ND

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Robbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Robbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 11:50am
I have five of the Ohm horns--Will do a good price on them as you would have to pay full whack on the sixth one from the Ohm factory.
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SouthwestCNC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 12:02pm
They would be so lost over 8 hogs and 4 rb212. Could probably just put one inside each rb212. Not a bad idea that but be a low stack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazyneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 12:06pm
I think you'll struggle running these drivers from 340hz and getting it to sound good ,even the 4592 is hard to get it to sound spot on below 800hz
GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by krazyneil krazyneil wrote:


I think you'll struggle running these drivers from 340hz and getting it to sound good ,even the 4592 is hard to get it to sound spot on below 800hz


That's good info, I had wondered how a one horn could cater for that range.
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 1:20pm
That is not true, you can do down to 340Hz, but you will need quite a big horn to do it.
Think Tannoy VQ60 big. Kind of 50x50cm on the mouth. 


Edited by MarjanM - 05 February 2017 at 1:20pm
Marjan Milosevic
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Teunos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

I have five of the Ohm horns--Will do a good price on them as you would have to pay full whack on the sixth one from the Ohm factory.

Out of interest robbo, do you have any pictures of these horns?

Also, why 340hz? Thats pretty damn low
If you intend on running a front loaded driver below it then 800hz should be easily doable even with a 15". With a proper hornloaded midrange 600-800 should be easy peasy as well. If you intend on running it directly above a 15" bandpass horn then forget it, it wont work properly and sound good.

On the dispersion Vs loading vs preventing resonances; i have written a lot on this subject in particular regarding my quest for a proper 2" horn for my 4590 and have a lot of experience in what works and what doesnt both from practical experience with several horns as well as simulations (axidriver, comsol) and hardcore theory (beranek is a must read).

The more i learn about the topic, the more i tend to believe that constant directiviry is something that is usually not achieveable across such a wide bandwidth and the design that do come close are usually terrible when it comes to distortion and resonances.
The good commercially available designs that are marketed as constant directiviry usually are not really CD. The elliptical 18sound range is a good example. Its pretty CD across the midrange and higher mids but at the top half octave its not. Still however they sound brilliant because of their lack of diffraction slot, generous size and generous roundover near the mouth. The distortion this provides (low) and lack of resonances makes them so popular in the diy community even though they really are not what is clasically considered as "constant directivity" in the classic sense.
To me, this is worth so much more than the perfect control at higher frequencies.
The xt1464 for example, is in my eyes, one of THE best commercially available 1,4" horns money can buy. Even better; they are stupidly cheap.(i just wish an aluminium version existed, and no, the XR is definitely not a competitor although also very good).

But like i have advented many times before, i just wish they would make a 2" version of it, but then even slightly bigger mouth to support lower frequencies.
I have a 3D cad model of such a horn on my computer with simulated ( in my eyes) perfect horn geometry and resulting directivity (will make you drool) but not the tools to prototype it.

Search for "Teunos 4590". There are some more useful posts i have written before.



Edited by Teunos - 05 February 2017 at 2:14pm
Best regards,
Teun.
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Teunos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 2:12pm
The tannoy vq60 is a nice big horn but lacks the roundover towards the mouth to prevent midrange waste banding which makes it impossible to maintain good CD behavior in the lower midrange.

GedLee, although i always find his posts and papers very weirdly formulated and descriptive lacking hard physical fundaments for his claims, nails the topic of horn design very well in my eyes.
I dont really agree with the foams, but his horn contour design are very good although not very practical for the pa market due to the round shape (pa guys typically dont want sound being beamed up to the ceiling).
Again, the xt1464 pretty much nails it on all fronts.

Edited by Teunos - 05 February 2017 at 2:14pm
Best regards,
Teun.
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 2:39pm
I mentioned VQ60 just as a size example.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote krazyneil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

That is not true, you can do down to 340Hz, but you will need quite a big horn to do it.
Think Tannoy VQ60 big. Kind of 50x50cm on the mouth. 
 
if you read the thread he already stated that the size of the horns suggested were too big for what he is building so to get something a more useable size  800hz would be where he needs to be looking at
GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!
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SouthwestCNC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 3:34pm
50 X 50 Would be a good size. The rb212's run 90-350hz fl horns, hence the idea of a coaxial horn instead of conventional two way top.

Something in the range of 90x60x 80 deep would be ideal :)

Could probably cross higher, here is the rb212 measurement (unfiltered):




Looks okay upto 450hz to me.

Edited by SouthwestCNC - 05 February 2017 at 3:48pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SouthwestCNC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

Originally posted by Robbo Robbo wrote:

I have five of the Ohm horns--Will do a good price on them as you would have to pay full whack on the sixth one from the Ohm factory.

Out of interest robbo, do you have any pictures of these horns?

Also, why 340hz? Thats pretty damn low
If you intend on running a front loaded driver below it then 800hz should be easily doable even with a 15". With a proper hornloaded midrange 600-800 should be easy peasy as well. If you intend on running it directly above a 15" bandpass horn then forget it, it wont work properly and sound good.

On the dispersion Vs loading vs preventing resonances; i have written a lot on this subject in particular regarding my quest for a proper 2" horn for my 4590 and have a lot of experience in what works and what doesnt both from practical experience with several horns as well as simulations (axidriver, comsol) and hardcore theory (beranek is a must read).

The more i learn about the topic, the more i tend to believe that constant directiviry is something that is usually not achieveable across such a wide bandwidth and the design that do come close are usually terrible when it comes to distortion and resonances.
The good commercially available designs that are marketed as constant directiviry usually are not really CD. The elliptical 18sound range is a good example. Its pretty CD across the midrange and higher mids but at the top half octave its not. Still however they sound brilliant because of their lack of diffraction slot, generous size and generous roundover near the mouth. The distortion this provides (low) and lack of resonances makes them so popular in the diy community even though they really are not what is clasically considered as "constant directivity" in the classic sense.
To me, this is worth so much more than the perfect control at higher frequencies.
The xt1464 for example, is in my eyes, one of THE best commercially available 1,4" horns money can buy. Even better; they are stupidly cheap.(i just wish an aluminium version existed, and no, the XR is definitely not a competitor although also very good).

But like i have advented many times before, i just wish they would make a 2" version of it, but then even slightly bigger mouth to support lower frequencies.
I have a 3D cad model of such a horn on my computer with simulated ( in my eyes) perfect horn geometry and resulting directivity (will make you drool) but not the tools to prototype it.

Search for "Teunos 4590". There are some more useful posts i have written before.



Thanks for this insight teunos.

Anyway you could move the fixing plate further up the horn to get 1.5" even 2"?

The search term only turned up this thread :(



Edited by SouthwestCNC - 05 February 2017 at 3:57pm
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Teunos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2017 at 4:26pm
Best regards,
Teun.
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