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Florescent tubes - Unusual problem..

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01nvr View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 February 2012 at 1:15pm
Hi all,

I have a rather unusual problem here and wonder if anyone can help me out. While its not 100% sound related I wasn't sure where else to ask.. 

I work as a sound/lighting tech at a local venue and last night we had a wrestling company in. During the end of the show they start doing 'death matches' featuring various painful ways to hurt each other (not my cup of tea..). They started smashing stacks of florescent tubes over each other in the ring, which also managed to cover the audience (they are seated ~ 2 meters outside with crowd barriers in front). There was a cloud of murcury and other hazardous compounds inside which also got sprayed with the shards of glass/

I am going to say they are banned from smashing them inside next time.. but I could do with abit more than my word against theirs. Is there any specific H&S legislation I can get them on for breaching? 

Thanks for any help. 
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brooa View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote brooa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 1:23pm
yes. mercury is VERY poisonous and fluros should be disposed of properly AND NOT SMASHED!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_poisoning

Mercury poisoning (also known as hydrargyria or mercurialism) is a disease caused by exposure tomercury or its compounds. Mercury (chemical symbol Hg) is a heavy metal occurring in several forms, all of which can produce toxic effects in high enough doses. Its zero oxidation state Hg0 exists as vapor or as liquid metal, its mercurous state Hg+ exists as inorganic salts, and its mercuric state Hg2+ may form either inorganic salts or organomercury compounds; the three groups vary in effects. Toxic effects include damage to the brain, kidney, and lungs.[1] Mercury poisoning can result in several diseases, including acrodynia (pink disease)[2], Hunter-Russell syndrome, and Minamata disease.[3]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 1:31pm
That all sounds absurd. How can you work under those conditions? I´d go see someone at your local council asap.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twirl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 1:32pm
My heart will sink ever so slightly if there needs to be a health and safety legislation specifically banning showering your audience with shards of glass and seriously hazardous material.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 1:52pm

Fooking muppets, mercury is not nice.

A COSHH (Control Of Substances Hazardous to Health) assessment would probably be a start, as it would identify the hazards of mercury, and would completely say you couldn't just pass mercury vapour into the air.

The white powder on the inner wall is a form of phosphorus. The mercury vapour, subject to HT, absorbs energy, and promotes electrons from inner spins, to higher energy (further out) orbits. This aint stable, and the promoted electrons tend to fall back to there normal spin orbital. This fall from one electron spin state to a lower energy one has an associated quantum of energy released, with a corresponding wavelength (colour). For street lamps (sodium) this  released energy is "yellow" wavelength, for mercury, it is actually UV. When the UV hits the phosphorus coating, it makes the phosphorus fluoresce in a visible white wavelength.

Basic common sense says it is just bloody stupid. Unless it is sugar glass fakes, then H&S are going to take an incredibly dim view of just the glass flying around, let alone glass contaminated with mercury and organic phosphor compounds.

Class action against these idiots for mercury poisoning? The levels of mercury required to cause serious health issues are tiny, and cumulative. Any exposure is bad.

Matt Stolton - Wilding Sound Ltd - www.wildingsound.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 2:00pm

Ask for money for the heavy metal contamination deep clean, now required too.

You think Asbestos removal is expensive, you aint seen anything when it comes to vapourous heavy metals!!

Matt Stolton - Wilding Sound Ltd - www.wildingsound.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 2:06pm

Some stuff:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/mdhs/pdfs/mdhs16-2.pdf

Another one, check out the whole document, but the man in photo 7, is just playing with the phospor, and check out his respirator!!

http://www.hse.gov.uk/foi/internalops/sectors/manuf/03-11-01/appendix-3.htm#photo7


So yes, it is so nasty that there is a H&S document guiding you on correct disposal methods!!

Matt Stolton - Wilding Sound Ltd - www.wildingsound.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 01nvr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 3:04pm
Thanks for the info everyone, greatly appreciated. I'm just typing out formal emails at the moment. From reading the regulations and a bit of research, I believe we were well over the limit..



Edited by 01nvr - 04 February 2012 at 3:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 4:00pm
Mercury can make you infertile amongst other problems....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattStolton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 4:48pm

From the wiki article, but kinda pertinent:

Fluorescent lamps contain mercury released when bulbs are broken. Mercury in bulbs is typically present as either elemental mercury liquid, vapor, or both, since the liquid evaporates at ambient temperature.[75]

When broken indoors, bulbs may emit sufficient mercury vapor to present health concerns, and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency recommends evacuating and airing out a room for at least 15 minutes after breaking a fluorescent light bulb.[76]

Breakage of multiple bulbs presents a greater concern. A 1987 report described a 23-month-old toddler who suffered anorexia, weight loss, irritability, profuse sweating, and peeling and redness of fingers and toes. This case of acrodynia was traced to exposure of mercury from a carton of 8-foot fluorescent light bulbs that had broken in a potting shed adjacent to the main nursery. The glass was cleaned up and discarded, but the child often used the area for play

The HSE:

0.025mg per m3 over 8 hours is max permitted dose, i.e. 0.000025 grams of elemental mercury vapour per cubic meter of air, for up to 8 hours is considered permissible. Any more, or any longer, and you hit the threshold of safety.

Now, one 4-6' tube contains 3 to 15 mg of elemental mercury (Older units perhaps as much as 40mg). Lets say 10mg is typical, and thanks to your wrestlers, pretty much all 10mg has just been violently shaken into the air. So 10mg into say the ring air volume, say 5mx5m x3m high? So 10mg into 75m3 = 0.0013mg per m3 per tube (assumes even coverage of the air in the ring, it will be at much greater concentrations directly around these idiot wrestlers, and for the air nearest the broken shards on the floor). If they broke 20 tubes, they would breach 0.025mg/m3 limit, even with the flaws in my model. In reality the immediate area around the broken glass, would breach 0.025mg/m3, and concentrations would tail off towards the audience.

If the tubes were older types with higher levels of mercury, say 15mg+, only a 6-12 smashed up would hit threshold limits.

That is ignoring the phosphates in the white powder of the fluorescent coating. Halo-phospors shouldn't be too nasty (appatite, a fluorinated phosphor compound is the main constituent of bone), but many other phoshor compounds are bloody horrible, just ask sheep farmers from the 80/90s. Organo Phosphates in sheep dip are linked to shed loads of long term illnesses.

For my sins, I do have a Desmond in Chemistry, so have filled out the odd COSHH form. Even the post grad students avoided using mercury in experiments, as, even with fume cupboards and good experimental practice, it is nasty stuff, and generally alternative reagents were sort.

You may be able to actually get a criminal conviction against these idiots for ABH. Fookwits of the highest order. I would be tempted to shop them to the HSE, and let them sort it out.

Matt Stolton - Wilding Sound Ltd - www.wildingsound.co.uk
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 February 2012 at 7:19pm
IT's probably copy cat stuff, based on stuff like this...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bass traffic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 February 2012 at 2:07am
Christ that first video is disturbing i had to stop it half way.
Amazing the stupid things that people will do to get on TV.
Always think bigger because your dreams might be the only thing holding you back.
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