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Design of 2x18 Front Loaded Horn

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djrockstar4u View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djrockstar4u Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 3:23am
Yeah, I wouldnt do a double WSX's, it'll break your back trying to move it lol. You'd be better building two seperate cabinets, you'd have a much better time trying to focas the bass
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 4:04am
Originally posted by mykey mykey wrote:

I can't still get me head round this
 
are you still going for a double wsx?
 
WHY?
 
just have 2 wsx, i thought you were designing something new, something different?
 
and a cab of over 36'' wide??? are you OK lev? don't need a lie down?
well you will after carrying it.
 
I'd better go before I start winging againLOL


Looks like general consensus is, 2x18 cab with drivers inline as originally detailed, won't manifest noticable phase issues until after 100hz. So cab will be at most 24" Wide.

Why do this?


1)1x 2x18 WSX is cheaper than 2x 1x18
2)Want to see the expression on peoples faces when they see 4x cabs, and hear 8x Wink
3)For smaller gigs, want to be able to just take 2x subs, and still have sub downto approx 38hz.
4)Mate of mine has PA hire firm, and sometimes plays gigs with just 2x Nexo subs and Mid tops. The subs have 2x18 + 1x15  in 1x cabShocked, and always impresses the crowd with so few subs.

So it proves single driver subs are not always the way. Just means, 2x man install, and tailgate lift van is in order.

Also WSX are getting a bit common now, want something slightly different.



Edited by levyte357 - 06 November 2007 at 4:12am
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mykey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 4:26am
I will say though, that graph looks lushThumbs%20Up
 
Lev can you try putting the 15'' version of the ciare 12sw in? and the 18'' version, both rubber surrounds
 
I heard these in a short horn and was very very impressed with the lows
Think they have changed the codes to the ciares now though, so mite not be 15sw
 
CharlesV if your reading, is the ciare 12sw been changed?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jsg mashed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:00am
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:


3)For smaller gigs, want to be able to just take 2x subs, and still have sub downto approx 38hz.
 
You'll still have horn mouth area issues. 38Hz has a long wavelength compared to the mouth area of 2 WSX.
 
OK, think of it like this. You start with 2 original WSX. Then:
- if you make them dual-driver you get 2* the power and 3dB gain until they start to cancel which will begin a little below 100Hz.
- if you add 2 more ordinary WSX, you also double the power but you also double cab volume and total mouth area. More like 6dB boost, lower f3l and (if stacked correctly) no loss at the upper end.
 
So yes a dual-driver cab is louder than a single cab, and if that's what you need, fine. But 2 doubles will lose against 4 original cabs.
 
If you want good downward extension from a small number of cabs, there are better ways to do this but...
 
Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:

Also WSX are getting a bit common now, want something slightly different.
 
I think being cool/fashionable is a big factor with you. Am I wrong?
 
...because Good is Dumb.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:30am
Excuse me for my ignorance but....

Are you aware how big will those boxes turn out?
You will not be able to move them trough a single door. It will be more of a 3 to 4 man lift (around 120-130 kg). I know this very well. I have 4 Lab subs and they are smaller than your imagined box. I also have 12 double 15 horn loaded selenium 1505 boxes and i regret every time i move them for not making them singles (also smaller and lighter then yours).

Oh, by the way do own a cargo van or some other king of transportation for them?


Edited by MarjanM - 06 November 2007 at 11:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:51am
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Excuse me for my ignorance but....

Are you aware how big will those boxes turn out?



Yes, I am going for the inline driver configuration, so looking at a cab that is approx
HxWxD 48"x24"48.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 11:56am
Take my advice and dont do it.

PM me your e-mail so i can send some photos of a project like yours dismanteled after being realised it is a PITA to move. It goes far beyond your idea. It is 4 x 18 folded horn :-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by jsg mashed jsg mashed wrote:

Originally posted by levyte357 levyte357 wrote:


3)For smaller gigs, want to be able to just take 2x subs, and still have sub downto approx 38hz.
 
You'll still have horn mouth area issues. 38Hz has a long wavelength compared to the mouth area of 2 WSX.
 
OK, think of it like this. You start with 2 original WSX. Then:
- if you make them dual-driver you get 2* the power and 3dB gain until they start to cancel which will begin a little below 100Hz.
- if you add 2 more ordinary WSX, you also double the power but you also double cab volume and total mouth area. More like 6dB boost, lower f3l and (if stacked correctly) no loss at the upper end.
 
So yes a dual-driver cab is louder than a single cab, and if that's what you need, fine. But 2 doubles will lose against 4 original cabs.
 
If you want good downward extension from a small number of cabs, there are better ways to do this but...
 

I think being cool/fashionable is a big factor with you. Am I wrong?
 


Thanks for input there...  The big factors here are costs and number of cabs used for gigs.
My cabs are kept in secure storage with lift facilities, and I have access to box van transits with taillifts. I have a number of guys who also help me move cabs. So transport or storage is not an issue.

I need a cab that can provide simular sensitivity to a scoop over 40-80hz with flatter response, Which allows me to do gigs with either 2x, 4x or 8 subs.

I like the WSX design/look, and have modelled a number of drivers in it, for quite a while. I need approximately 2x the SPL it provides from 1x cab, and it looks like 2x18 is the way to do it.

Regards.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 12:29pm
Why dont you build two 2x18 reflex boxes for smaller gigs. I have 12 1x18 reflexes that goes for small gigs. You cant be so much flexible with that big of a boxes.
If i show up on some nice corporate gig with two monster cabs they will freak out and never call me again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by MarjanM MarjanM wrote:

Why dont you build two 2x18 reflex boxes for smaller gigs. I have 12 1x18 reflexes that goes for small gigs. You cant be so much flexible with that big of a boxes.
If i show up on some nice corporate gig with two monster cabs they will freak out and never call me again.


Don't really have much use for 2x18 relfex now. For House parties I can use X1 or 1xMini scoop. For Small Halls I can use 2x scoops, large halls 4x full scoops. Wine bars, 2x mini scoops, but they are always too loud.

48x24x48 cab is only approx 18" deeper than most decent scoops, and "I think" is approx size of a lab.

For smallish corporate gigs where looks are as important as sound, I could use 2x of these, and 1x JBL/Vega 2x15+2" reflex cab or 1x W8C (borrowed) ontop of each cab. Looks less imposing than seeing guy's pulling 4 WSX out of  a lorry.

Edited by levyte357 - 06 November 2007 at 12:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 12:46pm
It is you choice but i can count on one hand how many labs have seen a gig in the past year. It is easyer to take 4 single 18s than 2 labs. I can pack 8 single 18s in my Peugeot partner or just one labsub.
I dont have to go to a corporate gig with big combi like transit is. I can take 4 single 18s and 4 RCF ART300a and are super cool for around 400 people and the setup is ready in 30 min.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2007 at 12:54pm
The mouth of a WSX is not really large enough as-is for one 18" driver on that length of horn.  You don't get the full potential of the cab until you have at least three cabs per side.

If you did your modelling in 2xpi you'd see the massive roll-off on the low end.

If you want to do smaller gigs with one cab per side and have sub to 38Hz, what you need is a decent twin 18" reflex box!  Or for the same cab volume you could probably have two per side.

I just don't think the design you're proposing will do what you want it to in reality.

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