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"smaller" horn system for home use

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roborg View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2008 at 7:06pm
this is the one i was looking for..
 
stumbled on these too, if you fancy an ultimate waste of money....
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2008 at 7:41pm
I've been thinking about this for far too long myself!  Want something that could double as party system / bar pa etc.  Have decided on the Autotuba design from Bill Fitzmaurice.  Check out his site he has a forum on there. 

I've started redrawing it and folding it into a more cubic shape as the original design is long and thin.  Will probably be loading with Eminence 10" BP102s as these apparently work well in horns (although they are actually bass guitar speakers). 

The idea is that they should go lower than HD15 and not be as peaky. Think they should be smaller as well.

I'll post some pics when I finally build them, probably won't be until at least the winter!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sKs01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2008 at 7:50pm
kleinhorn thats what i was thinging of couldnt remember what it was called bookmarked it now for future reference cheers roborg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2008 at 2:01am
Originally posted by Dunk Dunk wrote:

I've been thinking about this for far too long myself!  Want something that could double as party system / bar pa etc.  Have decided on the Autotuba design from Bill Fitzmaurice.  Check out his site he has a forum on there. 


 
Why pay for a (usually significantly harder to build than it needs to be) design, when you can probably design a more suitable one yourself with an evening or twos research?  Better still, use a free tried & tested design.  At least you know with a free design there'll be no commercial spin on what its capable of..
  I think if you sift thru the designs on this site & linked to from here, there is something to suit any purpose, audio reproduction-wise that is Wink
 
cheers,
  Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deadbeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2008 at 3:06am
On hifi stuff:
roborg, that's just the tip of the iceberg my friend. The tip.

And i agree about the BFM design. There's lots that will do it well that you don't have to pay for.


Edited by Deadbeat - 14 August 2008 at 3:06am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2008 at 8:54pm
Roborg that's a very strange answer when your post before mine suggested

"stumbled on these too, if you fancy an ultimate waste of money....
I paid $10 for the design which was about a fiver in English money.

I envy you if you can grasp horn theory, theile small parameters etc and design & cab and pick a driver with a "a couple of evenings research".  I work with numbers all day but I have tried to learn about horns and I don't find it that easy.  Just wanted something that would work, I can't afford the time to build prototypes, you would not believe how many other horn plans I have downloaded whilst looking!  Most of the plans about are basically too big for what I want, the Autotuba is small and efficient and I have seen good feedback about them. 

Also what you said about them being complex to build, I think you must be thinking of the DR range of cabs which require real carpentry skill to make.   the Autotuba is built from pieces of ply that are all ripped to the same width so its nice and simple.

Its funny though how everyone else has posted their responses and yet it's only when Bill Fitzmaurice's name comes up that people suggest to "design one yourself"...


Edited by Dunk - 14 August 2008 at 9:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2008 at 1:22am
it's true there are alot of plans to choose from, pretty overwhelming!  However the time spent sifting thru them gives you a much better idea exactly what it is you want.  It's worth the time, you'll end up with a way better first attempt, cos it's a certainty you'll want more or better once you've built 1 speaker Big%20smile
  A few hours playing with hornresp (especially trying to simulate an autotuba as a single section straight horn) and you can really get a feel for whats possible.  You don't need to understand much of the theory behind it.  Once you play with hornresp you realise pretty quickly that there is alot of hype hovering around certain areas of cyberspace, that includes all the big names too..
  The big problem for your application & horns, is that a horn needs to be big to be efficient at low frequencies.  You can help alot, by placing it in the corner of a room,  there are many horns designed specifically for this purpose.   A problem with the autotuba design will be positioning the speaker to make good use of 'corner loading'.  In a car you'll get some sub bass from the autotuba because its inside such a small volume.  However, it's shape and tiny mouth will make it awkward to position well inside a room corner & hence produce true sub-bass frequencies.  I'd honestly look up sonotube subs if you want 'real' sub-bass indoors cheaply in a fairly compact & convienient shape.
  I have run 2 1850 horns, 18" drivers 2meter horn path inside a 4x3x2.5m room & had very poor output below 45hz.  With one autotuba in the same room i'd be suprised to hear much below 60hz.
  I'm not deliberately trying to sl*g off BFM's designs, i just hate to see people building/buying cabinets that wont do what they really want based on deliberately misleading information.
  If you're gonna build the autotuba i'd recommend positioning it so that the cabinet is standing vertically in a room corner with the mouth pointing downwards, with a suitable standoff (i guess about 20cm off the floor) the mouth will be coupled quite well to the room corner & to the room.
 
cheers,
  Rob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deadbeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2008 at 2:54am
When you point down the autotuba, experiment with ply reflectors underneath. Make sure that the autotuba is standing more than it's mouth height above the floor.

IF you're using a small room, I honestly think a well designed tapped horn (much better for compact applications) or transmission line or reflex box will work wonders (all three which can be built into sonotube, check out nelson pass's tlines, patrick bateman's tapped horn and the several reflexes, though I personally like the cigarbox shape like the DTS-20, mmmm 18hz....) I've got a library of these things, just post a shape.

It's not about how big a plan is to me for home use, it's how well you integrate it. A long tall tapped horn in the corner just looks like another bit of wall with a tiny hole at the bottom. A bass reflex cab can be a side table. A folded tline can even be a coffee table, like the Fried Model H. Long sticks of sonotube look like columns.

Rob, I expect that with that tiny room, you'd end up with most of the bass next door! Was the 1850 designed for sub 45hz response in pairs? Maybe with room modes...I don't know...but bonus points for craziness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2008 at 5:55pm
Intersting points guys.  I will definitely check out the sonotubes.  It's interesting what you say about the room size, I used to go on to people about that myself but seem to have forgotten my own advice!  I currently have some smallish transmission lines and there should be lots of bass but there just isn't, I will try them outside and see what difference it makes as this will help confirm if it's a room size issue.

I still think I will go with the autotubas, one thing I didn't stress is that they need to be used in pairs or more really, the small size is more of a lifting/transport issue to me than using up space in the house (although it is also important).

This link is quite good as it shows why I like the look of them, it's a guy using 6 Autotubas for a small outdoor gig.

http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3533


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deadbeat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 August 2008 at 6:03pm
Which tlines do you have out of interest? There shouldn't be a room size issue with them even if they are subwoofer tlines as opposed to fullrangers, only horns work as acoustic transformers that lead to the neighbour bass effect.

Personally, I think BFM's top designs are okay, but i don't really like most of his subs. as djk has said, they just can't support their rated lf cutoff.

I would still uphold my recommendation of a tapped horn, they have been proven to pack a lot of power in small packages, and are at home both in the house and on tour.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roborg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 August 2008 at 2:51am
@deadbeat: the 1850's were pretty standard, hence the poor lf output.  In the room in question they had much nicer output with the backs open acting as scoops LOL
@dunk: in multiples they'll start to get there, you can always connect them in your car when transporting them too Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 August 2008 at 8:45pm
Deadbeat, they are an old design from Hi-Fi World magazine, I dont think there is anything online about them,  they use 6.5" Audax drivers and they are standmounting which is a bit odd.  Thats very interesting what you say about the room size and transmission lines, it's almost like I need silly bass to get bass in the centre of the room, then there is loads round the edges, probably just a crap shaped room.  (I have tried some infinate baffle speakers in the same room and they exhibit similar effects)

I have had a look at  the tapped horns, they seem to be a fairly new thing so not many designs about.  I read about some on this site but I haven't heard anything that positive.  I may have to build a few things and experiment!
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