crown vs lab gruppen |
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bitcore
Registered User Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 168 |
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Peter, if the lab falls on it's face on bass duty when playing *those* tracks, I can only imagine how bad it is on the type of music I enjoy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_38hditk7g aphex twin - xtal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY4Dov9afhA dilinja - valve sound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIx5jldKaEY qemists - stompbox (spor remix) [one of my favorites, its like a constant sine] I need an amp that can play that last one, full tilt, on a loop for 24 hours, and push out at least 1500W/ch @ 8 ohms, bridged or not. Edited by bitcore - 21 August 2008 at 12:28am |
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lapford1
Registered User Joined: 25 May 2008 Location: devon Status: Offline Points: 87 |
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Lab(light) or Matrix(Heavy!) Love those things you can get to gruppen with but also love having a work out putting gear in the van Trouble is there isn't alot in it to my ears, but if you want to go low, then go buy a bottle of lucozade and spend your money with andy! ( nearly had to flip a coin over that one but Bang for Buck, Matrix wins all day long!!!!)
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Hmmm Meyer!!! Heavy!!!!!!!!!
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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Ultimately, if you can afford it, putting another fP6400 in your rack to make up the extra power reserves is still insignificant weight compared with a VZ5!
Also consider that even if your amp is capable of a full power continuous sine wave, do you really want to be feeding that into your speakers for any length of time. The important thing I guess is that things like fp6400's and Camco V6's have always been able to drive the speakers as hard as I'd want to! |
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sKs01
Old Croc Joined: 11 April 2008 Location: sheffield Status: Offline Points: 1744 |
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try some iration steppas tracks.... i cant imagine many lightweight amps would enjoy that (im not inciting the old heavy vs light argument here but the psu's just werent designed for that)
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You're a big man, but you're in bad shape. With me it's a full time job. Now behave yourself.
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bitcore
Registered User Joined: 12 February 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 168 |
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Absolutely. When I build my subterranean bunker of aural pleasure and pain one day, the drivers will be spec'ed to handle a crazy continuous load.... it's going to happen one day. There are some drivers that eat up a full 3Kw for hours like it was no problem at all..... but please remember, I'm a bit insane for how much bass I want. Edited by bitcore - 21 August 2008 at 2:46am |
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Peter Moller
Old Croc Joined: 26 December 2005 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 2531 |
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IMO you will be disappointed with the Lab stuff and other light weight products... Look for something nice and heavy instead.. But make sure you can try the amp in real life situations before you make any purchase..
Most sound rental places will have Crown Ma5000VZ etc. in their rentalstock, so it shouldnt be a huge problem finding one..
/peter
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real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption )
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Tedski
Registered User Joined: 15 December 2006 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 402 |
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Sorry but thats just bull. Quality is not measured by weight. The vz5000's give you a free bucketload of distortion. If thats what you like, fine. Todays lightweight amps deliver heavy bass just fine. Our F221's powered by E45s sound damn good, on 2 ohm, on sustained sub. As do the fp6400's we have used in clubs, as do FFA5000's on Infra's. As for most rental places owning 5000's, we have never and will never own one, and I do not know of many places that do own them. It is not the benchmark amp, it's too freakin' heavy. I'm sure the Inf8 for example is great, but thats not because its heavy. It's 2008, 30 kilo amps are stupid. |
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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all the rental houses i know ( quite a few) are moving on their inventory of heavy amps for the same reasons
1) there heavy
2) modern light weight amps are more than capable of operating as well, if not better than the heavies they replace
using reasons like "i need an amp which can deliver a full power sine wave continuously" simply tells me one thing
you need more power!
smps every time in the real world - if ive got less than 10db of headroom on the system im running i know i should have brought a bigger rig
so, get the lab. everytime.
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Peter Moller
Old Croc Joined: 26 December 2005 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 2531 |
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Tedski, csg:
I know for a fact that the FP6400 will not output its rated power continously - Labgruppen had a whitepaper on their site outlining how they measured this:
To be a bit harsh about it: if the amp needs 66 miliseconds to recover from a 33milisecond full power burst, you need 3 of these amps to get continuous full power :-)
Like it or not, the MA5000VZ delivers 2500W per ch into a 2 ohm load constantly, without limiting its output and claiming its a "service" to you ( I dont know about you, but I dont run my ampracks full tilt on a 10A mains fuse expecting not to blow any fuses )
That said: The FP6400 sounds great for most uses, but for bass-heavy stuff like the examples mentioned, it just runs out of headroom ( sorry - its saves your mains fuses ) way before the 5000 and other heavy lumps of copper and iron does.
The 5000 is far from my favourite sub amp - in fact, I am not happy with it at all, but it does keep its promises in the power dept.
The 5000 was the industry standard for many years until manufacturers started offering light weight amps that would cover most users needs, but just like the vinyl vs cd discussion, there are still many situations where the old technology wins..
As a side note, it seems that I am not the only one who has some issues about the at times misleading way of posting specs: http://www.meyersound.com/support/papers/Power_Ratings_Tech_Note.pdf
/peter
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real phone no: +45 four zero six two four four nine eight ( using obvious anti phone spam encryption )
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Deadbeat
Old Croc Joined: 12 March 2008 Location: Singularity Status: Offline Points: 3167 |
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Hi,
Not making a counterpoint or anything, neither of the amps is a favourite... I'd just like to post the 3rd party numbers for the fP 6400 so people can see. Bink's amp shootout. 117vac supply 4 ohm stereo Continuous sine wave. 20hz - 1327W 1khz - 2310W 20khz - 648W Amps are rated by Lab Gruppen, at 4ohm bridge, >117Vac 1Khz - 2200W 20-20K - 2300W And here's Crown results. http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/24996/0/32/0/ These are given by the manufacturer. Edited by Deadbeat - 22 August 2008 at 9:18am |
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Away on extended leave.
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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Peter,
im perfectly aware that the lab will not deliver full power long term bursts. but that is my point exactly
what the amp is perfectly capable of doing is providing high power amplification of a dynamic input signal. It is already well established that the power of a system is a pointless statistic. the spl it can achieve is the important number
as i said before, i have no problem playing anything thru light weight amps because i will ensure that headroom is preserved.
ive used macros many times over the year, and yes they are powerful. but the sound they produce and the amount they weigh precludes them from modern world selection in my opinion.
and it seems im not alone. amps like macros, crest p series etc are becoming a rare sight in the professional sector. they have in no way dissapeared, but are doing so, slowly.
if the only way to provide amplification on a pro level was heavies, then everybody would be buying amps like infinate 8's
but there not.
of course, this is just my opinion.
however, if you are on a buget and need to rinse every watt out of your amps, then you are better with a heavy weight. that is not the way i like to work.
but saying heavies are simply better is like saying that the only way to get low bass is to use a scoop.....
im running for cover now!
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Nick Sasquash
Young Croc Joined: 24 June 2006 Location: North West UK Status: Offline Points: 1408 |
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Crown Vz is a beast... Simple....even pon heavy b lines it delivers whet it says it will :-) I cant hear any distortion when i play mine... Well yes, i suppose i can... but that is always the venue shakin to bits ;-) |
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