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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 10:57am

Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

Throw the cat amongst......
I reckon very few younger generation have experienced real high quality audio as a standard. Ears trained on mp3 etc....


Definitely. A lot of groups I´ve seen over the last few years have come along with some friend or other as their "engineer" and I´ve lost count of the number I´ve had to remove from the desk due to their inability to distinguish between decent audio and a distorted mess of noise.   Confused


"Your reasoning is similar to Microsoft. Once Microsoft introduces a new operating system, Microsoft will say anything to discredit their older version in order to convince everyone to buy their new operating system."

+1

And like M-$oft, the end user is used to debug the new system, ie a lot of products are released too soon and with serious design faults.


And Class AB may not be the most efficient, nor much good for very high power amps, but still has it´s place when you want something that sounds good!




Edited by Earplug - 22 January 2017 at 10:59am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickyburnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 11:37am
Originally posted by valve head777 valve head777 wrote:

Throw the cat amongst......
I reckon very few younger generation have experienced real high quality audio as a standard. Ears trained on mp3 etc....


I so wanted to say these exact words, but am aware I am becoming a bit of an old git in the eyes of some.
So thank you Thumbs Up
It's everything, not everythink!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 11:47am
Once low-quality heavily compressed signals played, such as  " *.mp3 " the party is almost over!
However even with badly formatted input signals, still there should be significant difference in overall sound quality between properly configured and poorly designed systems.

Neglecting the losses and dissipated heat , the class AB would be the best in terms of sound quality -- if properly constructed.
Unfortunately sizing the AB power stage for let us say 2X of the nominal output current handling - as common in good class-D amps - with highly reactive loads would mean kind of 4X-6X chip area (dissipation per area of silicone in the output devices) which will you never see in any AB amps!
Another thing is that when you see class AB amplifiers where the capacitors of power supply is separated by ~half meter cable to the amplifier stage.. Not good. All wires have some impedance and affects middle, high frequency reproduction as well as sharp pulses.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 12:21pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:


The Macrotech has several problems, it does not have regulated power supply so all sound quality/SPL are dependent on (even small) line changes. The Macrotech is especially highly sensitive to even small line drop, just few percent shift in the mains is clearly noticeable if the system running on high levels.

Crown tries to solve this issue with "multi-tapped" mains transformer primary but of course there is no way to change the taps in realtime, so it is basically useless.

Even more disturbing these Macrothechs (set to 220Vac mains tap) not only noticeably dropping dynamics and max. power bellow 210Vac but start to make "distorted sound" just bellow 200Vac. It was a huge problem for us, because when we have been operating in remote village area of Hungary (sound  for local village days events) usually the mains measured ~200Vac just sightly loaded :-(

 

Your issue is based on not having enough amperage so amplifiers with regulated power supplies are important to you. My Crown 5000vz amplifiers reside on 70A/70A dual pole breakers. The smaller Macrotechs reside on 30A breakers and, the Peavey Class D is on 50A breakers. In my case, a regulated power supply is not important to me since I don't have any issues of lack of current. 

 

The only things I have regulated are my signal processors sitting on a California Instruments voltage regulator. I have a higher probability of low voltage than you, since the United States only offers 120 volts. However, I do live in a large city which current cannot be stifled.

 

Macrotechs are historically known to consume a lot of current to get the job done. Crown even mentions it in their manual the current required in order to get the stated wattage. Crown aimed the Macrotech for concert touring where access to current will be greater than a standard housedhold A.C. Receptacle.

 

Best Regards,

 

Edited by Elliot Thompson - 22 January 2017 at 12:22pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

Neglecting the losses and dissipated heat , the class AB would be the best in terms of sound quality -- if properly constructed.
Unfortunately sizing the AB power stage for let us say 2X of the nominal output current handling - as common in good class-D amps - with highly reactive loads would mean kind of 4X-6X chip area (dissipation per area of silicone in the output devices) which will you never see in any AB amps!
Another thing is that when you see class AB amplifiers where the capacitors of power supply is separated by ~half meter cable to the amplifier stage.. Not good. All wires have some impedance and affects middle, high frequency reproduction as well as sharp pulses.



That´s a pretty sweeping statement. There are plenty of (old) AB amps out there with plenty of silicon in the box.

How about this one:





800W Bose.

These days, yes - a lot of the cheapo amps would only have 4/6 output devices per side - and 2000W on the front.   Ouch







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M4trix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by U.Viktor U.Viktor wrote:

It was a huge problem for us, because when we have been operating in remote village area of Hungary (sound  for local village days events) usually the mains measured ~200Vac just sightly loaded :-(


Heck, I'm living in a town (46 000 people) and in my home the mains drops down to 185V. Only after midnight it rarely reaches 220V. Especially during the winter. Ouch

@Earplug, what are those strange characters in every your post --> That´s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 3:52pm
Mono Links amplifier about 3000w @ 2ohm. Very deep amplifier at just over 530mm depth.



Edited by Aurora - 22 January 2017 at 3:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote U.Viktor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 4:49pm
The Macrotech 5000VZ on 120V/70A breaker is similar like 230V/32A.
Now we are running 2x Powersoft K10 or 3x PKN XE6000 on that 32A line, vastly outperforming the single 5000VZ...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 5:41pm
"@Earplug, what are those strange characters in every your post --> That´"

I don't know why that's happening, but it comes with every apostrophe I use. I wasn't sure if anyone else was seeing them as well! Now I know!    Big smile


EDIT: Aah, ok - so only happens with ´ and not ' - good to know.   Confused




Edited by Earplug - 22 January 2017 at 5:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Earplug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Aurora Aurora wrote:

Mono Links amplifier about 3000w @ 2ohm. Very deep amplifier at just over 530mm depth.



What output devices does that have? It looks a lot like it'll be MOSFETs.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aurora Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 7:16pm
I'm unsure as they are mounted upside down in the heatsink tunnel, not properly trained to take these things apart as I know the deadly current these things can hold and all that. Dated around the mid/late 90s. 1x 1/4 jack in 8x male XLR out. I have heard Links using Hitachi devices in the amps he built though, not sure what's in this one though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dub Specialist Sound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 January 2017 at 7:46pm
Nice to see an internal view of the Links amps,

ppls are very shy to share internals,

Keith/links was a don man...rip
Musical Roots Reggae Vibration is Life! for music is sound...sound is vibration...vibration is energy... and energy begets life. Therein lies my passion!...MUSIC IS LIFE...
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