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PA Amps/Indoor 240V Mains/Failure types.

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kedwardsleisure View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kedwardsleisure Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: PA Amps/Indoor 240V Mains/Failure types.
    Posted: 01 September 2012 at 12:52pm
Maybe a little bit of modern amp design particularly from the cheaper end of the market is the designer simply milking established designs without fully understanding them. An analogy would be when the russians tried to copy the american B29 bomber during the war and used metric rather than imperial gauge aluminium. The result was a near identical aircraft that was way too heavy to perform properly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote djkeet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2012 at 10:13am
There must be 100s of combinations of why things go wrong in Amps many have been mentioned I suppose the Techs are in the best position to answer this if they have the stats to collate.I do find I have to cut through all the crap distributors/retailers don't always provide you with an unbiased opinion,that's why I like these topics/forum they aim to reason around this.I don't like the idea about going on about China because its the west/commercial world wanting things for cheap to do this there is a push to make amps lighter,cheaper components etc thus driving down shipping costs.Before it was cheaper components and application So there is definitely a commercial element to this    
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taurusty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 September 2012 at 1:49am
True.
Could be inadequate testing/faulty design/lack of QC...
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by taurusty taurusty wrote:

Could it also be the rosy halo of memory too?


"Rosey halo of memory", does not explain why some sub amps when blowing, insist on converting the voice-coils of your attached expensive subwoofers into "crispy duck".

Whereas most others don't... Embarrassed


Edited by levyte357- - 31 August 2012 at 4:52pm
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taurusty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taurusty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 4:33pm
I rem when Micro/Macrotechs were just introduced & they had a high failure rate.
All the old fogey's of the day were grumbling that their DC 300's were much better & Y did Crown change?
 
Same w the IT Series; ppl flashed back to the 'superiority of Macrotechs...
Could it also be the rosy halo of memory too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnnyPyro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 12:18pm
Lev
 
I think you will find the biggest problem is ignorance and abuse.
I'm a firm believer in preventative maintenaince, esp having worked as a service engineer for a few years now.
The amount of stuff ive seen over the years is mental ," this amps shit, that light dont give out anything" and its always the units fault .. nothing to do with the fans are knackered and its full of crap LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacethebase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 11:16am
Originally posted by VentureSound VentureSound wrote:

However, what I don't accept is if said amp fails and licks out 4-8 of my expensive drivers at the same time.  To me, that is a shit amp.


Next time buy FFA :) well defiantly give them a try! Not cheap but I am 100% sure your problems will be solved with top class British back up service.


Edited by jacethebase - 31 August 2012 at 11:18am
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 10:56am
Originally posted by jacethebase jacethebase wrote:


If you want complete redundancy and safety from amps catching on fire and failing. Be sensible.


Indeed.

However, seems even if you are being sensible, some amps will still fail, and or catch fire/blow all drivers connected.

And as Venture sound eloquently put it, that is merde.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacethebase Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 10:39am
The problem is though when I instal a amp it is only going to be working at around 50% at 4r before it hits a hard limit. When out on a job with a touring style rack I drive them a lot harder, Still try to keep it at 4r though.

A amp at 50% 4r as apposed to 2db before clip at 2r is going to last a lot longer.

If you want complete redundancy and safety from amps catching on fire and failing. Be sensible.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote VentureSound Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 9:08am
I wonder if you put a roots program on telly it would catch fire? Tongue

No, but seriously, everything electronic fails at some point. However, more expensive things tend to use better quality components and/ or have better engineering to reduce this. IMO, things produced 20-30 years ago like the Crown MA and Crest amps were over-engineered and made properly, if you used them on 2 ohms etc, they wouldn't really grumble, and the air blowing out of them was cooler than it is today. 
The trend for everything to go lightweight these days has caused manufacturers to do things like reduce heatsink area so its no wonder stuff runs hotter and in some cases catch fire. 

Now, personally I can accept that an amp might fail at some point because its electronic and that's what happens, especially if I know i'm caning it a bit I kind-of know I had it coming. 
However, what I don't accept is if said amp fails and licks out 4-8 of my expensive drivers at the same time.  To me, that is a shit amp.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GAZ. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 August 2012 at 12:06am
Originally posted by levyte357- levyte357- wrote:


Originally posted by GAZ. GAZ. wrote:


Anything can go wrong, just because its the expensive or presigious brand X or whatever, doesn't make it immune to failure.


My point exactly.

The other line is, well I have 1E06 of these amps in installs, and none have failed, so user must be doing something wrong.



Same again, even something that is known to be reliable will wear out or go wrong in some way eventually.

Get the same sort of thing all the time in the TV world.
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levyte357- View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 August 2012 at 11:54pm
Originally posted by GAZ. GAZ. wrote:


Anything can go wrong, just because its the expensive or presigious brand X or whatever, doesn't make it immune to failure.


My point exactly.

The other line is, well I have 1E06 of these amps in installs, and none have failed, so user must be doing something wrong.
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