PA Amps/Indoor 240V Mains/Failure types. |
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 28 August 2012 at 4:41pm |
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Didn't want to further clog up "the wanted thread" on this.
Seems if certain amps go pop, and take out drivers, some automatically assume mains voltage might be contributing factor, even if indoor on ring main. Are some amplifiers more prone to catastrophic failure than others, due to mains over voltage? Over last 5 years, in regards to systems playing doors, typically on ring main/13A sockets, was told of approx 20-30 cases of Sub amplifiers a) Catching fire, b) Blowing fuse/components, c) Blowing and taking out drivers In all instances, a) Other amps/hardware in rack/connected to mains still functioning b) ALL speaker/power leads tested previous to gig, Amps which had simply blown a component/transistors/output stages/PSU sections, included EV, MC2, Crest, Crown QSC, Labgruppen, Powersoft, Peavey, Proline, Camco, Ecler, Behringer, Kam, Cmark, China Crest copies, etc. In all these cases, only two particular brands had repeatedly reported tendency to catch fire or blow all drivers connected to outputs when blown, or feed DC to drivers, when failure occured. So for some of us, automatically considering mains voltage as a culprit is a non runner. Hearing of certain brand blowing and taking out drivers/catching fire, is no surprise, as some amps have more reports of failing like this than others. Edited by levyte357- - 28 August 2012 at 4:53pm |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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Dougies Music
Young Croc Joined: 02 September 2005 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 1102 |
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Not following your point?
Are you asking which amps are prone to catching fire, or suggesting you know which certain particular brands of amps are prone to catching fire? Or something else completely..?
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Asking the question, why is it, if people report problems with "certain amps" around here, automatic assumption "by some" is user fault or mains issue. However, "typically", when other brands such as Crown, QSC, Crest etc are reported blown or with problems, typically normal reasoning/logic is applied/suggested, as opposed to assumptions in the above scenario. Edited by levyte357- - 30 August 2012 at 9:52pm |
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GAZ.
Old Croc Joined: 16 January 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 2433 |
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So, was anyone thats had one of these amps fail, actually measuring the voltage at the moment it failed and found it to be too high? or even few minutes after the failure?
I dont see how the over voltage thing can carry any weight otherwise. And how high was too high? Anything can go wrong, just because its the expensive or presigious brand X or whatever, doesn't make it immune to failure. |
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100% Earth Moving Bass
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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My point exactly. The other line is, well I have 1E06 of these amps in installs, and none have failed, so user must be doing something wrong. |
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GAZ.
Old Croc Joined: 16 January 2007 Location: Hertfordshire Status: Offline Points: 2433 |
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Same again, even something that is known to be reliable will wear out or go wrong in some way eventually. Get the same sort of thing all the time in the TV world. |
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100% Earth Moving Bass
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VentureSound
Young Croc Joined: 18 October 2009 Location: London N20 Status: Offline Points: 950 |
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I wonder if you put a roots program on telly it would catch fire?
No, but seriously, everything electronic fails at some point. However, more expensive things tend to use better quality components and/ or have better engineering to reduce this. IMO, things produced 20-30 years ago like the Crown MA and Crest amps were over-engineered and made properly, if you used them on 2 ohms etc, they wouldn't really grumble, and the air blowing out of them was cooler than it is today. The trend for everything to go lightweight these days has caused manufacturers to do things like reduce heatsink area so its no wonder stuff runs hotter and in some cases catch fire. Now, personally I can accept that an amp might fail at some point because its electronic and that's what happens, especially if I know i'm caning it a bit I kind-of know I had it coming. However, what I don't accept is if said amp fails and licks out 4-8 of my expensive drivers at the same time. To me, that is a shit amp.
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jacethebase
Old Croc Joined: 23 September 2009 Location: Somerset Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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The problem is though when I instal a amp it is only going to be working at around 50% at 4r before it hits a hard limit. When out on a job with a touring style rack I drive them a lot harder, Still try to keep it at 4r though.
A amp at 50% 4r as apposed to 2db before clip at 2r is going to last a lot longer. If you want complete redundancy and safety from amps catching on fire and failing. Be sensible. |
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Indeed. However, seems even if you are being sensible, some amps will still fail, and or catch fire/blow all drivers connected. And as Venture sound eloquently put it, that is merde. |
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jacethebase
Old Croc Joined: 23 September 2009 Location: Somerset Status: Offline Points: 5697 |
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Next time buy FFA :) well defiantly give them a try! Not cheap but I am 100% sure your problems will be solved with top class British back up service. Edited by jacethebase - 31 August 2012 at 11:18am |
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JohnnyPyro
Old Croc Joined: 17 November 2008 Location: London Status: Offline Points: 2083 |
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Lev
I think you will find the biggest problem is ignorance and abuse.
I'm a firm believer in preventative maintenaince, esp having worked as a service engineer for a few years now.
The amount of stuff ive seen over the years is mental ," this amps shit, that light dont give out anything" and its always the units fault .. nothing to do with the fans are knackered and its full of crap
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taurusty
Registered User Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Jamaica Status: Offline Points: 473 |
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I rem when Micro/Macrotechs were just introduced & they had a high failure rate.
All the old fogey's of the day were grumbling that their DC 300's were much better & Y did Crown change?
Same w the IT Series; ppl flashed back to the 'superiority of Macrotechs...
Could it also be the rosy halo of memory too?
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