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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: GRP composites
    Posted: 06 October 2013 at 6:11am
here is a new project under way to answer someone asking

 " hey SMP are you gonna show us how to make Horns?"

So  guess I am gonna impart some of it for now ...K.I.S.S 


below is a corrected  well almost Annular loading Device "Phase Bung" then if You Must!!!

needs some correction cos a silly idea I had to speed up the processes to have it this fat so quickly

so used a "Hot Mix" which uses  a high Catalyst ratio when polymerising it does actually get hot this was a little too fast it got too hot to hold  so it distorted a little plus the "Lay Up" & the "Wetting out" which is putting Glass in and bonding it with Resin

I used Surface tissue something I prefer for this kind of processes whick is "Pattern" the object that becomes the "Master Object" that the Mould is made to reproduce

Surface tissue creates a dense very fine structure but I tried to stretch as I used large sheets to create the object where I should have known better and slowed down and used strip overlays to build the shape it did not do what I wanted it to so some minor errors occurred

not a biggie !!

But rule #1 PATIENCE  take time I am an expert but the "hot mix" which will "Catalyse" ( begin to "Polymerise" (( Create the bonds in the Polyester Resin to a Hard Plastic)) really quick)
Took me good and proper!!! silly boy!!! take your time just an ooops!!!

I usually Use A non Accelerated Resin and add my own Cobalt accelerator but this is a pre accelerated type as need to order as a special usually nobody hold it in stock and takes time.
so we took the P.A. resin
 




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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2013 at 6:40am
I have also found a new Tool I have never used before...Quite accidental I came across a box of fancy
Tea Spoons look like silver metallised Plastic

Turns out really useful ideal for mixing small amounts of fillers they are a use once tool cus of the hardened filler but they are cheap to buy will make them a part of my kit from now on

if I get a response here I will list some essential tools you must have if you wish to try some of the stuff hopefully discussed here I will broach subjects such as GRP repairs and Sheething as well as making your own Horns and it is not just Horns it is easy enough to make ducts for that special touch to your reflex Enclosures including some special types.
Maybe even have a try at a Folded GRP  Sub/Bass Horn in a 18mm enclosure being as they are so popular on here time will tell
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote studio45 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2013 at 5:20pm
So if you wanted to create a phase plug with the rear side shaped to match the dustcap of the driver being used, how would you go about that?
Studio45 - Repairs & Building Commotion Soundsystem -Mobile PA
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shortrope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 October 2013 at 8:35pm
I'm very interested in this SMP!
I used to work in the Marine industry with advanced composites and I'd love to see how you're applying this to your work.
I'd really like to find out a bit more and maybe make some GRP horns for myself someday!!Big smile

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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 3:01am
Originally posted by studio45 studio45 wrote:

So if you wanted to create a phase plug with the rear side shaped to match the dustcap of the driver being used, how would you go about that?


Patience all will be revealed in due course  but in actual fact thet is really a very approximate profile most likely as it would more than probable that a inverse copy would be incorrect acoustically not to get too deep in all that at this point though I may touch on some design "tips" not really the right terminology but you get me I am sure as to designs not too keen on being an internet "Maplins" get you kit fix here kinda guy

It will hopefully only be non commercial for the purpose of education sort of exercise not make a buck off the other guy sod that has no integrity for me as an Eng I wish those that want to learn can and do period...

My Pickney not into any of this stuff my eldest does expensive Glass and loves it does not know one end of a console frpm another just loves to watch n hear my work occasionally
So must pass it on elsewhere instead

I must also state I have no reason to prove anything to anybody but recent events do mean a couple on here need to learn a little humility before they judge others abilities or skills and so speak or comment out of turn so to speak so that way we can all learn something from each and everyone us all

so will work out how this is best achieved for my part it needs careful documenting so it is very clear and concise for all too grasp it fully that way they can do more for themselves and progress to a better understanding of it so they are not victim to some of the ripoff kit they aspire to as they will make there own instead

i do hope it is what you need and that goes for anyone who takes part in  this thread

best wishes to all who do learning will commence soon
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 3:06am
Originally posted by Shortrope Shortrope wrote:

I'm very interested in this SMP!
I used to work in the Marine industry with advanced composites and I'd love to see how you're applying this to your work.
I'd really like to find out a bit more and maybe make some GRP horns for myself someday!!Big smile



well that's cool you are ahead in the game then as you have experience already you will doubtless make your own contributions here too I have worked in F1 a little too wholly different ball game but there are processes that can be useful here as well as the chemistry used

And I have also no doubt you will make your own Horns when you ready to do so
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TONY.A.S.S. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 7:25am
The last time I did this, I made a template of the cone. It was then shaped by hand, although I could have turned the shape on a lathe. Whatever gives you the result. I had a bunch of cones sent to me from the manufactures, so that helped. When it's all done, and you have your Phase plugs made, you then have to decide how far from the cone it will be placed. I did this by trial and error.

The above only tells you how to get the shape you want to create the back end of the mould. When it comes to producing them, it depends on how you will fix it to the cab. but once having decided this, you can make the plug in two halves and join then together horizontally, or you can mould the plug as a whole up to the split line and then mould the cap separately and glue it on. Both methods have been done by producers before.

You could also use a latex mould to do it all in one go and then peel it off when cooked, but you still have to have en external mould to support the latex in production, although you wouldn't be able to lay the plug up in glass, this method only really supports pouring resins. If the plug is quite small, say for a 6" speaker, then pouring a solid plug would be feasible.


Edited by TONY.A.S.S. - 07 October 2013 at 7:50am
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shortrope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 7:54am

[/QUOTE]

well that's cool you are ahead in the game then as you have experience already you will doubtless make your own contributions here too I have worked in F1 a little too wholly different ball game but there are processes that can be useful here as well as the chemistry used

And I have also no doubt you will make your own Horns when you ready to do so
[/QUOTE]

I'm extremely green to the Audio world and although I don't think I'll have too much bother with the 'making', I haven't a clue about how to design and spec this stuff.
That is where all the magic is!!
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Shortrope Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 8:12am
I'd love to see more pics too??Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 10:39am
+1 will be watching this thread closely
me so horny me love you long throw
horn loaded for her pleasure
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SMP Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 12:51pm
Originally posted by TONY.A.S.S. TONY.A.S.S. wrote:

The last time I did this, I made a template of the cone. It was then shaped by hand, although I could have turned the shape on a lathe. Whatever gives you the result. I had a bunch of cones sent to me from the manufactures, so that helped. When it's all done, and you have your Phase plugs made, you then have to decide how far from the cone it will be placed. I did this by trial and error.

The above only tells you how to get the shape you want to create the back end of the mould. When it comes to producing them, it depends on how you will fix it to the cab. but once having decided this, you can make the plug in two halves and join then together horizontally, or you can mould the plug as a whole up to the split line and then mould the cap separately and glue it on. Both methods have been done by producers before.

You could also use a latex mould to do it all in one go and then peel it off when cooked, but you still have to have en external mould to support the latex in production, although you wouldn't be able to lay the plug up in glass, this method only really supports pouring resins. If the plug is quite small, say for a 6" speaker, then pouring a solid plug would be feasible.


Once again the some of the above is correct but then again also completely WRONG 

It is possible to mould the major part in one piece but then it would once again appear I am no expert here

And will be starting on a Bricklaying course next Monday as it would seem i need to find myself a more suitable career
And to quote my Late Father (who incidentally would wait weeks sometimes for a visit from me to once again show him how HIS Hi-Fi worked!!!)  "Stop messing about with those speakers and wires and things and do something more useful with your life"

This of course was way past the "Sheldon" testing occasions I was around 11 or 12 and just now had enough funds from odd-jobbing to buy real components like KT's & EL's had my first Quad set a QC1 & QII with AM2 all mono glowed in the dark kept shed warm in winter 

I digress but needless to say I continued this complete waste of my time & mind which brings me here retired long ago 95/96 having had a completely wasted life in Pro-Audio perhaps had I listened to my Father I too could have had a steady job and a Mortgage instead silly me I chose to find myself here ready to leave my Mother Country for a Boring Beach Bum life sipping Cocktails while the Staff will run around after me Cooking and cleaning for me and all i will have for company are silly young girls and beautiful Women if only I had listened to him I would never have earned large sums from supplying events or made the investments in shares like BAA & BP which have performed so well it made me so miserable

So gonna stop all this "Nonsense" learn to be something easy like Bricklaying, Plastering or Toolmaking the latter was almost history till a disagreement with a 30T "Spotfacer" which tried to rip my arm off gaily watched by the older Men in Workshop/Machinefloor far too busy going to lunch to try save me then it was "Accident Book" Hospital never to return the smell of that Oil Coolant still upsets me a great deal

so time to sit back and wait for the next piece of this thread for me i cannot wait for the next enlightening post as to how this is all done properly

PEACE UP PEEPS.... OUTA HERE!!!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Heathrow_B_line Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2013 at 1:00pm
thanks tony, some great info there!
 
how does the material of the phase plug effect the sound it produces
 
is a wooden plug more flat in response than a fibreglass one?
Produce a killer sound. Take no prisoners.
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