Turbosound tms4+subs settings |
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kunak23
Registered User Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: Nothern Spain Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Posted: 22 July 2014 at 12:42am |
Im setting 4 tms4 turbosound with 2 2x18" jbl custom cabs front loaded.
Im setting 3 ways, so going up to 80-100hz with the subs and up to 250hz with the horn 18" tms4. I wonder if i need any delay times in my dbx driverack crossover to align them correctly. If so, how could i measure delay times??? Thaank you |
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csg
Old Croc Joined: 17 September 2007 Location: bedford Status: Offline Points: 6086 |
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you can measure the path length of the bass horn in the TMS4, a piece of string placed down the central axis of the horn path from the front of the driver to the mouth will do the trick.
this will get you so far however, as this wont take into account some of the more minor time domain stuff like group delay etc. to fine tune, get hold of a recording of a repetitive kick drum, and play it through the sub and bass section of the the TMS4 wit the cabs arranged as they will be whilst in use. Reverse the phase on one of the cabs, preferably the sub. Then fine tune the delay on the sub until the kick drum is at it's least punchy. Then flip the phase of the sub and it should kick like a mule!
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Robbo
Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Try and get some more Turbo 18" horn loaded subs to add on to your TMS4 boxes as we have found in the past that adding G subs on to a TMS system never really works successfully especially if you are going to try and split your bass frequencies between the two types of different design of cabinets---if you try and do this at the frequencies that you have suggested above then you will really lose out on the punchy ballsy bass that the TMS4 is famous for.
I would run your TMS4 boxes three way active and if you are stuck with the JBLs for a bit then run them off a separate amp up to 250hz and just reverse the phase wiring on the JBLs as Chris has said above and this will bring them pretty close to being in sync with the 18s in the TMS4s. Indoors this way will give you a reasonable sound but outdoors is when it will tend to fall apart especially at distance. TMS4s are one of the best "one box" cabinets that you can get and have always been a favourite of mine, having owned over 30 of them over the years, I know them pretty much inside out--Cheers--John. |
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kunak23
Registered User Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: Nothern Spain Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Hey csg and john¡ thank you for your comments and help¡¡
I have 8 tms4 , so im planing to run just 2 tms4 + 1 JBL sub per side. I agree that i might just loose some of the turbosound bass sound you talk about. Did you mean to run the tms4 cabs all the way , and just add the JBL subs up to 250hz??? (doing the reverse phase) One more question. When i play only 2 TMS4 per channel, would you suggest to put 2 TMS4 standing together or would you prefer to put them one on top of the other, and the top one upside down, putting twitters together???
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Robbo
Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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I would run both types of cabinets from 40hz up to 250hz which is the correct cut off frequency for the bass section of the TMS4 and reverse the phase on the JBLs only.
Always put your TMS4s standing upright next to each other but don't forget to splay them at about 20 to 25 degrees to avoid any combing. If you are only going to use two TMS4s per side then lay your remaining cabinets on top of each other in pairs then put your TMS4s on top of them standing upright---you can then just use the 18s in the flat cabinets and not the mid/hi section and this would give you the extra horn loaded bass that you need and then throw the JBLs in the skip. This would then give you four horn loaded 18" two 10" mids and 2x1" drivers per side which is about the right balance for blue boxes. |
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kunak23
Registered User Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: Nothern Spain Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Hey John i draw a little design on how to set the cabinets. What do you get from the cab when you change the phase of the speakers? Also found on internet some TMS4 settings adding some delay times in between speakers.I dont know if they are worth.
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Robbo
Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4226 |
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Yeah from memory those settings seem correct--If you are still gonna use the JBL 2x18 cabinets then you must reverse the phase on the driver wiring in these so that with positive voltage on speakon pin 1+ the cone moves backwards instead of the normal forwards in phase movement.
This will bring them pretty close to the Turbo 18" phasing but not really ideal as the more that two bass drivers are out of phase with one another then the less bass will come out of the system stacks---I have seen this many times in the past when people add on unmatched cabinets to a PA rig and end up with less bass response than if they had not plugged them in at all. |
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kunak23
Registered User Joined: 22 April 2009 Location: Nothern Spain Status: Offline Points: 135 |
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Hey John, look, the turbosound page state exactly the same you said. 18" all the way up to 250Hz.
: : 100 Im gonna try set the equipment up this weekend and try some programs on the crossover and see how it sounds. Too bad i dont have any horn turbosound subs. I´ll try it changing polarity in subs. In the turbosound info also says that we should change polarity in TMS4 between mid/highs and lows. Even just using them alone. |
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