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12" 2-way + sub(s) for DJ'ing at small parties
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7816 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2014 at 11:54pm
Nope is the only correct answer. Expensive or not.
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mini-mad View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 September 2014 at 11:59pm
Correct according to you.
So far hes asked for help and given the restraints and all hes been told is he needs better restraints and box designs that wont fit his original post.......

..i give up with people on here sometimes.....
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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MarjanM View Drop Down
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Points: 7816 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarjanM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2014 at 12:06am
18sound 12 inch plan has crossover plan there too. So why would he need an off the shelf crossover?
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ceharden View Drop Down
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Points: 11776 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2014 at 12:27am
Just to throw some more into the mix, my 'small' system uses a pair of very compact 15" reflex on the bottom end.  Design is quite similar to the old B&C Sub15 design (you'll find it on speakerstore.nl).  These cabs are small and light enough that I can lift them and press out above my head (not that there is any real need to).  Loaded with Mk1 Beyma 15LX60's (fantastic drivers) it is quite incredible how much noise they make from a very compact cab. They happily deliver down to about 40-45Hz which is perfect for me as I mainly do live music with them.  I used to run the system with a pair of 18Sound 18LW1400 loaded single 18's but I've been finding I've not really been missing much just running the baby subs instead.

There are three main attributes to think about.  Bass cabinets can go low, loud and/or be compact.  You can normally achieve any two of those but you can't get all 3 together, so choose which ones are most important.

Personally I would have said there isn't much wrong with the plan on the first post but I'd consider going for a 15" reflex sub (preferably a pair).

It is possible to get some useful bass out of a 12" mid-top cabinet but there are trade-off's when selecting drivers and cabinet size.
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Soren View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2014 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by corell corell wrote:

look at B&C 12ndl76. lovely midrange (imo), loud and cheap.
bms 4550 above, active x over , job done :D

Thanks for the suggestion. I read good things about both the B&C 12NDL76 and the BMS 4550. Is that a combination you have tried yourself? If so, which horn flare do you use for the 4550, or which would you recommend? I found an interesting CD + horn test here:


I guess something like the RCF HF101 would match well with the BMS 4550?

The B&C 12NDL76 + BMS 4550 + RCF HF101 will cost us €327 from www.lautsprecherteile.de, which is actually cheaper than the 18Sound 12” kit, and also a little cheaper than the B&C+18S kit your friend is selling. Btw sorry for not getting back to you about that. I’m sure it’s a very nice kit and with everything included it’s a steal for that price. However, I have a feeling that we’ll get a better setup with something like the B&C 12NDL76 + BMS 4550 combo you suggested.

I did a quick winISD sim of B&C 12NDL76 as well as the 18S 12MB700 that was suggested in the selfmadehifi.de project I linked to earlier. The 18S takes a smaller cabinet, has less power handling, but is more sensitive, and doesn't go as low as the B&C. The 12NDL76 takes around 700W before reaching Xmax whereas the 12MB700 reaches its limit around 550W. The attached graph shows SPL at Xmax. This is of course just simulations and it won’t tell us how they actually sound :) If anyone has hands on experience I’d love to hear your thoughts. Also please let me know if you have other suggestions.

Anyway, I like the idea of going active for the tops, as it will give us more flexibility, and not having to rely on a proven passive xo design. We can find a cheap second hand amp for the CDs and then use my miniDSP 2x4 until we have enough funds to buy sub(s), and by then we will probably get something like a DCX2496 to control everything.



Edited by Soren - 23 September 2014 at 10:14pm
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corell View Drop Down
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Points: 1161 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2014 at 9:13pm
if you are speaking german (which i assume by looking at your links) then have a look at lautsprecherforum.eu , you will get lots of usefull information regarding the horn + cd combi there as both, the bms and the b&c, have been used a lot for builds of the members.

i`d try the rotatable P audip ph220 btw. and in the future a DCX and a 4 channel amp for the tops.

and yes, if your having a sub with it everytime, the top i sent you would not be your first choice.




Edited by corell - 17 September 2014 at 9:58pm
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ceharden View Drop Down
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Points: 11776 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 September 2014 at 10:53pm
I have used the 12NDL76 in small mid-tops.  You can get a decent amount of bass out of them due to the excursion available but they require a reasonable amount of power and EQ to do it.
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supremesoundz View Drop Down
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Points: 2689 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supremesoundz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2014 at 11:54am
Just did a marquee party with a pair of FBT verve10 and the one FBT verve18 sub. All powered by the one EV P2000. Was ample sound..
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supremesoundz View Drop Down
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Meant to add that it was a very compact set up and fitted into a golf hatch back. Cdjs/mixer and other stuff fiited into another car!
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mini-mad View Drop Down
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Points: 6903 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 September 2014 at 1:37pm
AHHH!.... I believe our brother here is trying to pack down into a single hatchback. ALL IN.
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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king david View Drop Down
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Points: 1324 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote king david Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 September 2014 at 10:05pm
if you go for the 18sound designs and speakers you would be probably very satisfied. 12"+1 and single reflex sub. use the ld amp for tops and buy one for the subs, give the sub lots of clean power, you should also find an ok crossover and eq on the used market. i guess you cant put much more stuff in a car...
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Soren View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Soren Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 September 2014 at 9:42pm
Sorry, was busy for few days and hadn’t had the chance to post until now.

Originally posted by corell corell wrote:

if you are speaking german (which i assume by looking at your links) then have a look at lautsprecherforum.eu , you will get lots of usefull information regarding the horn + cd combi there as both, the bms and the b&c, have been used a lot for builds of the members.

I don’t speak german so well. With some google translate help I can manage an article like the one I linked to earlier, but the slang on forums makes it hard to understand for both me and google translate :) But thanks for the tip, I’ll have a look.

Originally posted by corell corell wrote:

i`d try the rotatable P audip ph220 btw. and in the future a DCX and a 4 channel amp for the tops.

What's the reason you'd try the PH-220 horn flare? Do you have experience with this? How would that compare to e.g. the RCF HF101?

Originally posted by corell corell wrote:

and yes, if your having a sub with it everytime, the top i sent you would not be your first choice.


You mean the B&C 12CL76 from your friend's design? If so, what would you then suggest as a good 12" mid bass driver if you always have subs?


Edited by Soren - 23 September 2014 at 10:12pm
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