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horn loaded subs for Live Sound?
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GEB View Drop Down
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Points: 1993 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GEB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2015 at 2:16pm
What type/driver config of tops do you use elliot?
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I usually crossover my tops higher because too much excursion from bass has a negative effect on the clarity of the upper frequencies (low mid) I am asking the same cone to produce.

As for horn loaded bass cabs, I use them in my main system. They do direct the sound, and I find it advantageous. The stage hears much less from the pa, and I can point it away from other sound stages and the bleed is easier to control than when everything is omnidirectional. They do not drop very low, but I really never get any complaints that I am not hitting 40 with authority.

I do like how reflex sounds better, but I would need twice as many speakers, and any size advantage is lost.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5175 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2015 at 4:02pm
Originally posted by RobinMatrix RobinMatrix wrote:

But ... just because the tops *can* play down to 60Hz, does not always mean you would want to ... depending on the exact tops, you often find that HPF at 180 Hz will then allow you to push the tops a lot harder, or use half the number ... and the bottom end can then take up the strain.


That type of method falls under trying to extract every bit of SPL out of the least amount of boxes. My method use more boxes which allows more headroom for each driver which, in turn lowers the chances of driver failure.

By playing down to 60 Hz I do not mean the cabinet offers -10 dB @ 60 Hz from a frequency response perspective. The natural roll-off point falls within a – 3 dB point range. So there is no reason for the cabinet not to play within its -3 dB point range unless, you are willing to sacrifice extension for more SPL. I know a lot of people do but, I choose not to.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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GEB View Drop Down
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What type/driver config of tops do you use elliot?
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Abe The Babe View Drop Down
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what do you mean by PPSL _DJK_?
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Originally posted by Abe The Babe Abe The Babe wrote:

what do you mean by PPSL _DJK_?

Push Pull Slot Loaded
Signature is important. So I always write something in this dedicated field.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5175 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2015 at 7:59pm

Originally posted by GEB GEB wrote:

What type/driver config of tops do you use elliot?


EAW KF 750

http://www.hollandpa.nl/hpa2012/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/KF750F_PHOTO.jpg



Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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Abe The Babe View Drop Down
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Smile


Edited by Abe The Babe - 07 January 2015 at 8:27pm
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Abe The Babe View Drop Down
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Points: 336 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abe The Babe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2015 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by PinHole PinHole wrote:

Originally posted by Abe The Babe Abe The Babe wrote:

what do you mean by PPSL _DJK_?

Push Pull Slot Loaded



Like the low mid in Martin's mla compact? what subs are designed like this? I presume the reason we don't see this all the time is because they are probably band pass subs and have the characteristic ringing. 
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b grade View Drop Down
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Points: 1337 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b grade Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2015 at 9:25pm
Push pulls sound nice. I think you don't see many of them because they are a little more involved to design.

Edited by b grade - 07 January 2015 at 9:26pm
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kevinmcdonough View Drop Down
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hey

Not quite the same as MLA compact.

If you search PPSL on here you'll get lots of info and links, but basically you put one driver in the cabinet in reverse (and wire it in reverse) so that while both speakers are moving in and out of the cab at the same time, one is moving normally and one in reverse.




Thats the push pull part, and often they are loaded into a small slot/chamber to bring them acoustically together and thats where the slot loaded part comes from.





Any distortion caused by cone breakup, non linearities of the suspension etc etc, get canceled out by the other speaker moving in the opposite direction and doing the reverse, and so distorsion is severely reduced and you get a super clean sounding subwoofer.

k


Edited by kevinmcdonough - 08 January 2015 at 12:28pm
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Centauri View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

Bass Reflex cabinets are capable of going lower than horn loaded cabinets when comparing the overall enclosure size amongst the two. The majority of horn-loaded bass cabinets take a nose dive below 50 Hz under real world conditions (Not Simulation). A Bass Reflex cabinet can reach into the 20s or under pending on the TS Parameters of the loudspeaker.

Best Regards,

My 12" hybrid horns don't start dropping off until below 40Hz. 

The majority of commercial front loaded "subs" affordable by the average working band / muso start dropping off around 60Hz - by the time you get down to 40Hz, they are producing a lot of harmonic distortion.  There are good performing front loaded subs out there that go very low, but your average pub band can't afford them.

Edit: In case you are wondering, the frequency response plot in that article is a Mackie SWA1801


Edited by Centauri - 08 January 2015 at 11:51pm
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