MT-121 Not completly Satisfied - Mysteries |
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levyte357-
Old Croc Joined: 27 July 2012 Location: UK, South East Status: Offline Points: 8128 |
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Posted: 16 April 2016 at 9:39am |
I think the results some get from MTs, really depends on drivers used, quantity of cabs, flattening eq.
But also think is pointless exercise, unless LMS is used. |
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Global Depopulation - Alive and Killing.
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matty w
Young Croc Joined: 27 August 2008 Status: Offline Points: 798 |
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Listen to bee .. Why people imagine that your gonna get a decent sound out of the mt 12" horn above roughly 1.2/1.3/1.4 is beyond me lol well tbf I went down the same road so can't really speak haha !
It is what it is !! High pass at 150hz and low pass at 1k tops IMO !! Find a driver that will play flat down to around 1k for the top end ! No good trying to bump a load of eq in the crossover regions either ! The filters will mess around with the sound anyway , .... Getting drivers that meet each other properly is halve the battle on getting a good sounding speaker !! 18 sound 1464 is what I used ... Does the job nicely ! Also worth mentioning the 12" horn is a bit of a problem when you only have one a side, doesn't cut the mustard IMO ... For these speakers to shine , you need two either side !!! Also you need dsp ... It is a must !! Don't consider all of these points and they will never properly work !!! Sound good on some tracks but not others hahaha! They might sound ok to some people whilst not adhering to this advice but one day you will realise u wasted a lot of time and money !! And you really do need an expensive quality 1.5" comp or a 2" with some bullets or 4592!! |
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Black to black , red to red , blue to bits ....
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LeruSound
Registered User Joined: 27 August 2015 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Thanks to each and every one, u all were so nice giving me your advices. Finally i made L-Pads with around 3.5 dB of att., and i'm good with them now, or at least better than before. I found the 1" driver not so bad in that combination. It gives a bright character to the sound, and make it enjoyable and exciting.
I heard about the same problem. Some ppl who wanted to made crossover on them from an audio shop, finally had the x-over around 700-800 hz cause it was not possible to rise over in that horn. So i'm pleased that this is not hardly happening on mine. But the same question: which driver u would use to load this project? http://hornplans.free.fr/pas5ma1.html It is quite different from MT121, but i personally would choose that 12NMB420. Edited by LeruSound - 04 January 2016 at 5:42pm |
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bob4
Old Croc Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1842 |
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oh, and maybe you should read this:
Which specs should I look for in a driver for midrange horn use?Edited by bob4 - 14 December 2015 at 12:46pm |
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bob4
Old Croc Joined: 29 February 2004 Location: Finland/Germany Status: Offline Points: 1842 |
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Don't do it! You can use what you already have. Several people have given you the same, good advice. If you follow it you will get good results. I have measured a MT121 loaded with Fane 12". It had a big dip (=hole) between 600 - 1000 Hz that needs a lot of EQ. The measurement of your MT121 looks very nice compared to that! The 12" plays well up to the crossover frequency. But as others pointed out, the 1" driver is playing too loud! That is your main problem! Like Marjan and others said, you should: 1) decrease the level of your 1" driver. (2 - 4 dB) 2) use delay to time align 12" and 1" Easiest solution: Get rid of the passive crossover and use separate amplifiers for 12" and 1", use a DSP like behringer DCX for time and level alignment. |
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fede
Registered User Joined: 07 April 2013 Status: Offline Points: 18 |
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You need to attenuate hf frequencies.. The lf driver is not your problem, if you can, use an active crossover. Send me a pm, maybe I can help you!
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LeruSound
Registered User Joined: 27 August 2015 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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I just found another one that gived me good results: 12NMB420 from 18sound.. I think i will go with them.
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LeruSound
Registered User Joined: 27 August 2015 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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I will For sure. Try get a look to B&C 12CL64. It seems good to me for this experiment.
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ceharden
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 05 June 2005 Location: Southampton Status: Offline Points: 11776 |
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Changing drivers to achieve more low frequency capability (heavier cone, more excursion) will be a trade-off because you will most likely lose midrange efficiency, transient response and reduce the upper usable limit. You will also be running below the cut-off frequency of the horn, which means that you won't get much more output than the driver in a sealed box with no horn in front of it.
Are you calculating the Fc just for the driver in the sealed rear chamber? If so then of course you will see lower cut-off frequencies for different drivers. When you take the horn into account as well, that has a much larger influence over the low frequency response because you will get no benefit from it below it's operating range. Your options are probably to either have more horns together which will help the efficiency at the low end or just to apply some gentle EQ to flatten the response down to your crossover point. Can you do another measurement of the MT121 on it's own, with no crossover on high or low please? Edited by ceharden - 01 December 2015 at 12:56am |
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LeruSound
Registered User Joined: 27 August 2015 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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Love the way u replied me. I think we could be in the same wavelenght :D Sorry for the poor english but i'm from italy and i'm not using translators for improove. So, i think that a driver which gives the system an Fc around 200 Hz , cutted 180 Hz cuold be worse than a driver which gives the syestem an Fc around 100 with the same 180 Hz cut. Mine is now at 200 Hz. Some of you r suggesting me to use others that gives me Fc again around 200 Hz. I am suggested to use one that gives me Fc around 100, 120 - 140 could be also good for me. Maybe i will have a better punch on it? Dont u think so? Selenium enginners seemed to thik the same in PAS5MA1. In MT121 the same. Probably the horn will kill what i am trying to get from the 12", but it could be better than before, dont it? I will compensate from 3 dB the HF drivers, because i would not do it anymore with eq until it seems to be so unbalanced. If u think i am so wrong please try to stop me, but give me your opinion, and please try to debate with me but in order to get a practical solution. Why it should be so stupid to provide under 200 Hz response? Will the horn kill the 100 200 Hz band completaly? Do you think it could be useless? Why in PAS5MA1 and MT 121 the plans are planned in order to handle that 100 hz from the rear closed chamber? Now it sounds like a conspiracy topic or something that can be heard in Tv at late night
Edited by LeruSound - 01 December 2015 at 12:18am |
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LeruSound
Registered User Joined: 27 August 2015 Status: Offline Points: 171 |
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I will reapeat it: i am not trying to hear 100 Hz from that horn!! I am just trying to get the best HPF result on the 12".
Maybe i went wrong posting that plot and spending too much time on the HF section. I will fix that problems for sure, but i would like to talk about the mismatch i hear from people in stead of what the designer wrote on the suggested drivers in the plan. Volume of the rear closed Chamber = 17.5 L (MT121) You tell me 12PE32 is good but Qtc=0.47 Fc=226 Hz told me u cut it around 150 HPF 12NDL76 is good but Qtc=0.46 Fc=200 Hz told me u cut it around 150 HPF 12MB700 is good but Qtc=0.5 Fc=198 Hz told me u cut it around 150 HPF Plans tells SN12MB is good and Qtc=0.77 Fc=107 Hz It is suggested to a 160 Hz HPF 12MB1P is good and Qtc=0.82 Fc=103 Hz It is suggested to a 200 Hz HPF 12PLB100 is good and Qtc=0.71 Fc=96 Hz I thik it as a choice 180 Hz HPF |
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bee
Old Croc Joined: 14 June 2011 Location: Middlesex Status: Offline Points: 4553 |
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plus 1.....
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https://www.elements-audio.com
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