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Line Array Waveguide Design

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Teunos View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2016 at 4:07pm
Removed.


Edited by Teunos - 20 July 2016 at 8:59am
Best regards,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2016 at 7:38pm
Originally posted by Teunos Teunos wrote:

Dispersion is of minor influence in the goal of the design, whether it is 60*40 or 90*40. 
The downfall in my eyes of conventional line array systems that i don not want to pursue is the goal of creating a planar array. I do not want line array behavior of -3dB decay per distance. I just want multiple drivers to work together as a virtual pointsource.

Danley uses the paraline for this purpose, but i am not at all convinced by it. Geometrically it is a much simpler implementation than the Lacoustics design. It is smaller, lighter and easier (and cheaper) to make. There is one major problem with it though, it only works in the high geometrical limit. I ran some simulations on the paraline like i did for this design and the paraline only works above +- 3kHz (do have to note this was a pretty rough and dirty CAD model, but it gave me an indication). The lacoustics design works better down to lower frequencies, and i like the fact that there are no 180 degree corners inside of it. Maybe for a small 1'' driver it will work, but i do not see it working for a 2'' driver needing to go down to several 100's of Hz.

I have this vision of the ultimate pointsource box for nearly all of my large applications anywhere between 200 and +- 1500 people. This design would solve my problems i have right now, in that it would get rid of the interference effects while not making the final box much bigger (compared to the three seperate HF boxes i have currently)
I do not think that the danley approach of adding 6.5'' mid drivers will make much of a difference. surely if i were to use 1'' drivers they would not be able to go down low enough without tremendous distortion so then a larger paper cone is necessary to go down anywhere low. 

That said, they would still have to be crossed at around 250ish Hz. For my current system, that is too high so i would need a 5th way in my system. The double 12'' horn loaded mids i have work very well up to 700Hz without any major negative side effects of arraying two of them side by side, despite them not being a single point source. They are much more efficient than 6 6.5'' drivers and can go lower with less distortion.

I just have to get to terms with the fact that i will have a box measuring 80cm high, 60 deep and 50 wide with ''only'' three HF drivers attached to it. Seems like lost space that i could mount mid devices to, but the cons of that are not outweighing the pros. 
It will however have very proper pattern control across its entire bandwidth due to its size, no interference effects, and be able to produce at least 140dB without too much distortion down to 500Hz, using components i already have. 

What to do....Ouch
Well, i have to find some time to make the prototype for one waveguide and then measure it to see how it will perform, and what the consequences are of the non idealities i see in the simulation.
In the simulation, i cannot see how the standing modes will react once in the farfield of the source. Maybe they will smooth out, maybe they will cause massive dips and peaks, only measurements will show this.
Got some ideas on new measurement techniques i can employ to test thisEmbarrassed.








Just a note that although it is a bit rough, you can easily run simulated measurements of FR and dispersion on the Paraline range using either Direct or the provided CLF data. The pattern control definitely works lower than 3KHz so I'm not sure your model is correct.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2016 at 7:54pm
One thing that i should maybe stipulate here is that when i say ''does not work'', is that it does provide pattern control, but it just does not provide a flat wavefront at these frequencies. Since however the frequency drops and wavelengths get larger, deviations from perfectly flat are less relevant since sources will automatically couple better and interfere less due to the proximity of individual sources.
This will not show up in standard CLF data.

Also, i am always looking at nearfield information running the comsol simulations. In the farfield much of the chaos dies out as it is unphysical radiation i.e. evanescent waves. Physics tends to smooth out many of the irregularities. In CLF data this will also not show in directivity files but more in frequency dependent losses, that can be compensated with eq.

The major difference between the paraline and the current design is that the current design provides a flat wavefront with less irregularities to a lower frequency than the paraline. I dont mean to discredit the paraline, i am merely stating my observations.



Edited by Teunos - 27 June 2016 at 7:55pm
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Teun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toastyghost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 June 2016 at 10:14pm
No of course that's fair enough - your design goals are a little different than the Paraline anyway as that was specifically meant for a column style box. You may want to take a close up look at the integrator in the J1, J2 and J3 to see how they tackle it there - it isn't shown on drawings for obvious reasons
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 June 2016 at 6:57pm
removed.

Edited by Teunos - 20 July 2016 at 9:00am
Best regards,
Teun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teunos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 July 2016 at 11:41am
Removed


Edited by Teunos - 20 July 2016 at 9:01am
Best regards,
Teun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thomas Hosker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2016 at 6:00pm
Why all the removed posts?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hydrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2016 at 1:32am
This was a great project to see some pics of!

I've been registered for a while (october 2012) but this is my first post.
I would love to keep in contact with you but can't send you a PM.

If you read this, please send me an email:
jan (at) deleest.be

groeten!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote biotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2016 at 8:58am
I don't come here very often anymore but I was loving this project. A great mix of advanced modelling and modern manufacturing processes. Please keep it going, or at least tell us where we can keep up to date! This forum is full of people asking the same tired questions, and modelling and building in the same way people have done for 20+ years. It needs people like you to show that there's a whole world of technology to advance DIY speaker building
me so horny, me love you long throw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2016 at 8:12pm
I sure hope Teunos accidentaly created the next step in linearrays design and gets to make a shitload of money out of it. His dedication to the cause of good sound is amazing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 July 2016 at 10:25pm
I too hope the thread posts were deleted because good is coming his way, great effort and gave my self plenty of food for thought, and a different look at this subject...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 July 2016 at 5:52pm
This project is happening very soon. Teun has allready ordered the parts and gets to CNC it in the next week.
Its his birthday today btw ;)
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