Quick fix power distro? |
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Teknotice
Registered User Joined: 24 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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Posted: 11 January 2017 at 10:03pm |
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Hi SP!
I think I already know the answer but I need to ask anyway. Does anyone know if you can use data power distribution units (surge protected) for PA amplifiers? Example is below: As a fill in until we get a proper distro. Looking to power a system of 7KW RMS Cheers! |
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'why on earth do you need this much amplification?!'
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cravings
Old Croc Joined: 30 January 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 7442 |
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well if it was really 7000w that's 32amps.. maybe list what you're going to use? blue aran and studio spares do decent rack distros.
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Teknotice
Registered User Joined: 24 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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Hi,
We'll be using: 1x matrix xp 1500 1x matrix xp 2400 1x matrix xp 5000 1x ultradrive I checked out blue aran, I havent got £200 to spend on a distro at the moment. My only option at the moment is the ebay link above, I just want to know if I use it just for one night, could it blow or short circuit my amps etc? Cheers
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'why on earth do you need this much amplification?!'
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cravings
Old Croc Joined: 30 January 2007 Location: Ireland Status: Offline Points: 7442 |
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it doesn't offer any advantage over a normal 4 way plugboard (other than tidiness and the rack mounting) so if it's temporary, just use a normal plugboard. however you do it, just use the fattest power cabled option available to you. 2.5mm is the best you can hope to fit in a good 13A (mk or duraplug) plug.
those amps should be fine on 13A. |
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MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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I'll get in before shaggers does! 2.5mm in a BS1363 13A plug is a technical PAT fail, 1.5mm is the max designed CSA for 13A plug. In some "nice" plugs, you can shoe horn in 3G2.5, but cord retention is normally compromised. 1.5mm H07RNF 3G1.5 is good for more than the 13A fuse. I would want to split that load over two extension leads, to be on the safe side. Please also be aware that the maximum you can pull out of a double socket on the wall, is not 26A (2 x13A), but 20A. Much as the ring will probably be fused at 32A, all (plastic) DSSO are rated at 20A max, generally tested for 8 hours at 19.5A, and shouldn't exceed some temperature around 80c after 8 hours, IIRC.
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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
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Teknotice
Registered User Joined: 24 March 2012 Status: Offline Points: 288 |
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Thanks for your help guys!
Edited by Teknotice - 12 January 2017 at 12:42pm |
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'why on earth do you need this much amplification?!'
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imageoven
Old Croc Joined: 28 March 2007 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 2186 |
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This. Run a seperate extension for you big amp and plug that into it's own wall socket. Theres not a way to be 'ok for just one night' unless it's always ok. Check each socket in your venue before you plug in. Last venue we did had sockets with broken faceplates and back boxes, loose faceplates with just one bolt, reversed N &L, No earth, completely dead on one side of a double outlet.... not sure why they say this in their ebay ad but it would be enough to make me look elsewhere Fits standard 19" Data Cabinets (Not designed for flight cases etc)Edited by imageoven - 12 January 2017 at 4:02pm |
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Keep pushing on, things are gonna get better.
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njw
Old Croc Joined: 26 March 2010 Location: S. Wales Status: Offline Points: 2574 |
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All my big old C Audio's had 2.5mm cable and were fitted with 13A plugs and never failed a PAT test but I'll give three guesses as to who tests my gear. You quite rightly say though that you have to use the right plug (I've had no cord grip issues using duraplugs) and technically it shouldn't be done.
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MattStolton
Old Croc Joined: 04 September 2010 Location: Walthamstow Status: Offline Points: 4234 |
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Yeah, TBH, I would be unlikely to fail it too! As long as the cord retention and lid of plug sits correctly, and all strands of copper are in the brass terminals correctly, meh. If you were to make such an "abhorrent breach of regs", then ferules could well be your friend. Before I knew about BS7909 and its insistence on H07, I made up some 32A SPN+E 3G6 using type SY (the "screened" mains cable) as my supplier didn't have any H07, and did me a silly price on 25m of 3G6 type SY. However CEE plugs have slightly larger earth terminals than L/N, so with a bit of heat shrink and a ferule or three, was able to make off the "armour" with the green yellow core, and shoe horn it all in. Extra bit of CSA on an earth conductor is no bad thing, as it aids disconnect times a fraction. Even if it is steel rather than copper! In a BS1363 13A plug, some argument that all the air space is taken up with copper, so less ability to radiate heat, but 2.5 will be cooler for same current draw. Again, meh. It is to do with the specification of what a 13A plug is designed to do. BS4343 (IEC60whatever it is) also says max CSA into terminals of CEE/Commando plugs too. Think it is in BS7671 too? Shouldn't put 6mm in a 16A cee for example, even if your voltage drop calculations indicate you should, you need to use 32A CEE connectors. Like I said, a technical fail, but I like the use of oversized copper. The clever will use the "correct size", and so save themselves money, but I would rather do it once, properly. Goes back to the 32A SPN+E CEE using 3G4mm or 3G6mm "debate". If your supplier says its HO7 RNF 3G4 can do 32A, in a formal specification sheet, and your voltage drop and other calcs for total length Vs CSA Vs disconnect time, say you can, then you can. But in a hire environment, where every job is different, and end user may not be "skilled", 6mm is a much more safe bet. 6mm will be correct 99.9% of the time it is deployed, where as 4mm can only be used in certain deployments. In a hire bin, you don't to have to stock both!
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Matt Stolton - Technical Director (!!!) - Wilding Sound Ltd
"Sparkius metiretur vestra" - "Meter Your Mains" |
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shagnasty
Old Croc Joined: 30 July 2007 Location: Guildford, UK Status: Offline Points: 7685 |
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PA Testing is in real terms a joke for gigs.
no extension leads over 30m, longs ones have to have a built in RCD, all hire equipment should be PA Tested after every hire??????? I real terms, I thought "temporary Wiring" addendum (BullShit 7909) cover "cee-form" CSA as 2.5/6/16/35mm only, the 16th/17th as a bit a caravan parks which covers BS4343 outlets and has said the same for years. The truth is no document can ever cover anything we do, I needed a 70m 32A feeder a while back, enter 10mm 5 core, but I could have hired the whole run as 20m 5g6 cable and most people wouldn't have a clue that it was an issue... I am making up a hybrid Multicore, 100m 8 balanced lines and 6 bits of CAT6, I need a mains run, 4mm isn't going to cut it for a 16A feed, I could try putting IECs on the mains run (10A) but I am not feeling the 4mm will fit into an IEC, so I am making a "dodgy" leads with 16A and a 10A max load sticker on it, this break quite a lot regs, but as it is for use in a controlled system ( a Lighting desk, sound desk, PC and a couple of laptops will pull like 5 amps max) i see no issue, the cable will never be outside the voltage drop for the circuit so who cares, I understand this, I have the skills to say this is a safe design and in safe in scenario, but some tit might put a 3.5KW turbo oven at FOH and cause a problem, not a lot I can do there, but some tit and climb into teh roof with said 3.5KW oven and un-plug a Source 4 and pluf it into a 20A dimmer channel and burn up 60m or 18G1.5 soca cable, not a lot you can do (I wouldn't mess with anyone how can carry a turbo oven up a truss ladder) my point is if you really want to be safe the regs need to state "no un-qualified person should play with anything lumpier than a 13A plug."
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James Tengo
Old Croc Joined: 09 May 2008 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 2155 |
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Playing the devil's advocate for a minute, what qualification should we hold? Plenty of good experienced lampies out there that aren't qualified sparks. Often with a lot more of a clue than the girls on stage left, and they play with the big red plugs too... Most C&G courses seem to be geared to either domestic or "industrial" (read: building maintenance)
Edit to add : Massively off topic, but i think the OP has already had a fairly comprehensive answer before it started veering off wildly.... Edited by James Tengo - 14 January 2017 at 11:19am |
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dylan-penguinmedia
Old Croc Joined: 14 April 2011 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 4575 |
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This. I know of many 'qualified' electricians who have absolutely no clue whatsoever about much past a domestic install, yet they hold the CSCS Gold card so 'should' be the ones to call, using that as a benchmark? Told myself this year i'd get my ass back to skool, so first thing i booked was a 17th ed amendment 3 refresher (#NewYearNewMe etc), i know there's a Skillset Certificate in Temporary Electrical Systems (SCiTES), but does anyone actually give a shit about it? Does it mean anything? Or is it 2-300 quid wasted until C&G decide to do something?
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