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tv00
Old Croc Joined: 10 August 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1886 |
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Posted: 15 April 2017 at 6:53pm |
I'm not running in circles, I'm telling how bridge works, that switch just parallels & inverts cha, so not all amps sould just be connected to cha for bridge!
Yet again this technician that's now dead have bridged 100s of these and during my test sound did indeed come out! :-) But I have no idea what's really going on, so now he's dead I should probably ask powersoft how this can be possible when they say it isn't... |
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Father-Francis
Old Croc Joined: 24 October 2007 Location: Kenya ,Denmark Status: Offline Points: 2760 |
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Output connectors are made via Neutric Speakon connectors. Consult the wire gauge chart to find asuitable wire gauge to minimize power and damping factor losses in the speaker cables. Both outputsare to be considered "hot" because the amplifier is always working on bridge mode . The 1+ and 2+pins of speakon connector are paralleled and have to be considered the positive output; the 1- and 2-pins of speakon connector are paralleled and have to be considered the negative output.Never try to bridge the outputs on DIGAM series amplifiers.
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/665790/Powersoft-Digam-Series.html?page=6#manual |
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Music is the strongest form of magic.(+45 31879997)blakmanpro@gmail.com, foa@sweetboxaudio.dk
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dylan-penguinmedia
Old Croc Joined: 14 April 2011 Location: Brighton Status: Offline Points: 4576 |
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Kyle's right on this one. Old amps, swap polarity on input with cable, etc. That's a method that's been used for years, until manufacturers made it easy for you with a switch to do so. This amp, don't try it. Think of it as a 4ch amp PCB that's already had the bridge button hard wired on it - you see it as a 2ch amp, but it's a 4ch with 2 channels bridged. As much welly that can be wrung out of it safely has been - leave it alone... If you want more, get a different amp. |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10920 |
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Yes but in this case there is no bridge mono switch because the amp is already in bridge.
Hey let's keep going round in circles eh? It's not my amp that's gonna die |
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BJtheDJ
Young Croc Joined: 28 November 2012 Location: Bristol Status: Offline Points: 884 |
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http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/index.php?/topic/2590-custom-y-adapter-and-bridge-mono-help-xls-602b/ and from http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/index.php?/topic/1912-crown-xls-402-bridge-mono-question/ In Bridge-Mono Mode the speakers are connected across the positive output leads of channel 1 and channel 2 and a custom “Y” cable is needed that inverts the polarity of channel 2 so that it is the mirror image of channel 1. If both output channels were in polarity pushing at the same time the cone would make no sound as the output signal would have no low side reference. Now with reversed polarity on one side of the amplifier when one side is going high, with the signal source, the other side would be going low the same amount. If you measured the output voltage between the two positive outputs you have twice the voltage output because you are referencing the negative to an output side that is changing, with the signal, exactly opposite of the side that is pushing the signal. In amplifiers that have a BM switch the switch routes (“Y’s”) the input signal from channel 1 to channel 2 bypassing the channel 2 input level control and only uses the channel 1 level control. The signal polarity is then reversed before being fed to the channel 2 side of the amplifier. Amplifiers that do not have a Bridge-Mono switch need to be set up for BM the old fashion way. To do this you use a custom “Y” cable on the input that will reverse the polarity of the signal going to channel 2. Since there is no switch to bypass the channel 2 level control the input signal level controls need to be level matched. The easiest way to do this is set the amp to full output otherwise someone may inadvertently change the level on one side and unbalance the outputs. Doing this could cause damage to the amplifier. Bridge-Mono basically combined the two channels of an amplifier and makes the amplifier into a larger mono output amplifier. If the amp is an XLS Dseries than all you need to do is use the channel 1 input connector set the switch and connect the speaker(s) across the two positive terminals. If there is no Bridge-Mono switch, it is an early model, and the "Custom Y Cable " must be used.
See attachment for wiring diagrams. http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=72 We used to bridge 2 x H|H TPA100D amps to happily drive our Gauss 15s using the reverse signal polarity method - did have to put fans onto them tho. |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10920 |
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No, it doesn't. A y cable refers to the speakon for the OUTPUT stage so that you can join to the positive terminal of both channels. You should not be feeding both inputs, the amp is in bridge mono and will only need one input, already summed to mono.
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tv00
Old Croc Joined: 10 August 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1886 |
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No, that's only true for an amp with a bridge button like already said, if it doesn't have one you have to do it!
For instance, try googling crown bridge y-cable or y-adapter, they bridge jsut like any other amp, just the way I said, this is why u get minus at "+" on ch2, it makes perfect sense if you think about it for a while. |
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10920 |
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You're missing the point - they're not saying it shouldn't be bridged, they're saying it already is bridged.
So by attempting to bridge an already bridged amp, you're likely undoing the original bridge and running the amp in a strange way that was never intended. Also, just because ch2 is polarity inverted in a bridge configuration doesn't mean you feed it with a polarity inverted input signal. You should only be using ch1 input on any bridged amplifier, and mono summing further up the chain if you want a mono signal. K series, M series and X series run in half-bridge configuration, meaning they can be bridged further, but the original Digam two channel is already full-bridge - it's most likely the 4 channel amps from that range bridged together. Edited by toastyghost - 15 April 2017 at 5:12pm |
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tv00
Old Croc Joined: 10 August 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1886 |
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Well my man repairing these put them in bridge when testing on dummy load, he said it worked fine, he fixed tonnes of these. Also during my test it seemed to work with ch2 inverse polarity & +2as minus.
@Toastyghost: U can only push bridge when there's a button for it:-) Usually it's done like above, ch2 amplifying out of phase due to polarity reversed from parallel signal,t which is why +chB comes out as minus. I've seen that they say it shouldn't be bridged, but apparently some people get away with that? |
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el chupacabra
Young Croc Joined: 02 August 2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 757 |
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aye, it's pretty straightforward on k series as toastyghost says. i tried a k3 bridged into two faital xl1600 a couple of times recently and it was great. lots of output for just a pair of 18" TH. it's tempting to start making up a few bridge link cables.
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toastyghost
The 10,000 Points Club Joined: 09 January 2007 Location: Manchester Status: Offline Points: 10920 |
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Well it seems that you can't bridge the Digam 7000 because they're already a full-bridge unit sadly: Taken from here: http://darkbox.ch/images/pdf/powersoftdigamu.pdf Also when bridging an amp you shouldn't need to feed the unit with two signals at all? Just give it a mono output from your DSP or desk into Ch1 input and ensure the mono/bridge/link switch is pressed on the amp. |
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tv00
Old Croc Joined: 10 August 2009 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 1886 |
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I never wrote bridge 2 ohms, it says brigde 4 ohm! -That should load each channel 2 ohms, that's at the lowest point measured over working range, 100hz hits 8 ohms!
Tell me how you bridge them? Most often it's ch two out of phase by reversing polarity, I tried changing hot/cold on xlr, didn't work, then I flipped polarity on Xover instead, that seemed to work. |
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