Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > 12v Powered Systems
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - How To Power High Powered System From Battery
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

How To Power High Powered System From Battery

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
DJ-Dulux View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 24 August 2009
Location: Kenilworth, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 378
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DJ-Dulux Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 10:21am
Originally posted by swoo swoo wrote:


In total I will have 
-2x Bass Face DB1.3 (BASS)  
-2x Bass Face DB2.2 (KICK/LOW MIDS)
-1x Bass Face DB4.1 (MIDS)
-1x Bass Face DB2.1 (TOPS)
What batteries would I need to power all this for a night? 
 
Only the DB1.3 is actually digital, the rest are class A/B. The reason the DB1.2 (2014) is recommended is that people have used it and know how much current it pulls. The DB1.3 is digital, but a much bigger amp, most amps are most efficient at close to the max output so people try and select the amp for the most common volume needed, another compromise.
 
Bass eats power, bass is hard outside, you need a lot (+12dB over the rest of the audio spectrum) to make it sound right, consider cutting below 80Hz. Use psychoacoustics  to fool people into thinking you have bass, it works surprisingly well as shown with the Boominator.
 
Dupe...
Dupe...
Back to Top
Ganon View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User
Avatar

Joined: 07 May 2014
Location: Denmark
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ganon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 10:27am
Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:



I agree that something good could be done with 3-4-5 well chosen car amps and 100Kg or so of lead - but it would still be nowhere near driving that speaker stack to its full potential (as specified by the OP).

Even the above would involve some pretty damn heavy cabling etc., some knowledge/research to make it safe and reliable .... and probably involve an inverter (+ a bit more lead) to run outboard stuff (unless you're gonna go modding LMS, mixer, EQ etc.).




If he wants to drive the system to the limit then he must forget about batteries, but if he wants to go for batteries, he must know wich options he can do, instead of just say, no can do, try to give a example of what he can do.

A genny will be the option if you go for the amps you have.
Car amps will be the solution if you want to go for batteries, the mixer, eq etc. could go over a inverter, they dont use a much power as a amp, or you can do the eq on a minidsp, and see if theres a other solutions for mixer, like a Traktor and a ipad or some other small usb driven mixer.
The amps you have is as you say oversized for the system, because you dont want to push it to the limit, with car amps, you have to push it to the limit to save power.

One of my friends are building a system for the Roskilde festival, witch 8 BFM Titan48 and 8 BFM Omnitop12, and using two Pioneer GM-D8604 and Two Bassface 1.2, and expecting about 140 db. on full power. That would be enough for a big crowd.

I think it's possible. Smile
Back to Top
Peter Jan View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 16 December 2008
Location: Belgium
Status: Offline
Points: 1019
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 10:41am
Originally posted by swoo swoo wrote:

Peter Jan how would you suggest being able to drive a vehicle while connected to a generator? I cannot have it inside the vehicle due to the emissions as the vehicle will also be my home. I cannot have it on a toe-bar at the back as the sound system is playing out the rear doors and that is where the audience will be standing. The only way I can think is if I attached it to the roof? But that calls for some health and safety and makes it rather difficult to access. I would be interested in hearing other ways to do it.


I didn't get that info earlier, but how about some pictures of this vehicle ?
I'm thinking... do you have the motor running all the time/most of the time while sound is playing ?
Can't be that hard to put an extra alternator on the engine to help the batteries.
While you would still need some charging system when the motor is not running, inverters and stuff, having this extra alternator can account for less needed battery capacity (=cost & weight saving).
But even so, I still would not dig in all this without at least someone that knows his/her way around all this. As someone said, it doesn't take much battery to injure or kill someone.
Back to Top
Saturnus View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 13 July 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Points: 2025
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saturnus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 10:42am
Please note that where BassFace db1.2, db1.3 and db4.1 are class D the rest of BassFace's line up is not. To pull this off to even some degree, all amps must be class D as it generally cuts the needed battery capacity (and thereby size, weight and price) to 1/4th or 1/5th.

Start low and add on as needed. In many, if not most, cases it is much more economical both in power use and life time needed spending to use more speakers than to have higher power amplifiers. For example, if you have 2 subs on one amp adding a 3rd sub on the same amp, provided it can handle the load, would produce about the same acoustical output as having an amp with 4 times the power output on the original 2 subs.

Especially when playing outdoors it's much more about effective cone area (either from the speaker drivers themselves or from the horn loading mouth area) than actual power. A small system with big power might sound big indoors... not so much outdoors.


Edited by Saturnus - 08 October 2015 at 10:47am
Back to Top
davey t View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 11 March 2004
Location: Bristol UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1428
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davey t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 3:10pm
Using class-D 12V car amps is the right way to do it. Converting to 240 then using inverters is a bad idea. 

Probably need 8 or so 1000w monoblock amps to run that bass. 

like the guys said, it's all about speaker efficiency. You're better off running more speakers with 100w each than fewer with 1000w. 
Minirig portable soundsystem movement
Back to Top
snowflake View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 29 December 2004
Location: Bristol
Status: Offline
Points: 3122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snowflake Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 3:49pm
Originally posted by Peter Jan Peter Jan wrote:

Originally posted by swoo swoo wrote:

Peter Jan how would you suggest being able to drive a vehicle while connected to a generator? I cannot have it inside the vehicle due to the emissions as the vehicle will also be my home. I cannot have it on a toe-bar at the back as the sound system is playing out the rear doors and that is where the audience will be standing. The only way I can think is if I attached it to the roof? But that calls for some health and safety and makes it rather difficult to access. I would be interested in hearing other ways to do it.


I didn't get that info earlier, but how about some pictures of this vehicle ?
I'm thinking... do you have the motor running all the time/most of the time while sound is playing ?
Can't be that hard to put an extra alternator on the engine to help the batteries.
While you would still need some charging system when the motor is not running, inverters and stuff, having this extra alternator can account for less needed battery capacity (=cost & weight saving).
But even so, I still would not dig in all this without at least someone that knows his/her way around all this. As someone said, it doesn't take much battery to injure or kill someone.

isn't the easiest solution to put a generator in the vehicle and vent the exhaust out the roof.
Back to Top
shagnasty View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 30 July 2007
Location: Guildford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 7685
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2015 at 12:33am
When the battery bank weighs 5x the genset, use the genset!!!!!!!!!
Back to Top
Phil B View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 21 November 2004
Location: Melbourne
Status: Offline
Points: 2328
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2015 at 4:00am
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

When the battery bank weighs 5x the genset, use the genset!!!!!!!!!

When the genset pumps out a tonne of particulates and c02 and runs on fossil fuels ... yeah sure...  go for it.

The point of our system is to show that you can have decent sound from a stand alone re-chargeable battery system. I hope it encourages others to do so and to avoid the " just stick a genny on it" argument. It`s not totally " green" as it needs a big vehicle to pull it and the batteries are hardly environmentally friendly but it points to the future hopefully and away from the head in the sand & oil based culture of today.

The renewable energy market is huge and the entertainment industry ignores it .... mainly because of ignorance and no understanding of what it offers

.p.
Mostly harmless.... except if catering is shut.

Solar Sound System Shennanigans..http://diyhifi.biz/
Back to Top
davey t View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc
Avatar

Joined: 11 March 2004
Location: Bristol UK
Status: Offline
Points: 1428
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davey t Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2015 at 10:13am
Speak to Mike from the Bimble Inn. They run a really big rig from solar and batteries. I think they have a custom trailer with a huge battery bank and big purpose made inverter. Then they use Lab Gruppen amps. 

Pro way of doing it but not cheap. 

Our 12V rig is pretty loud. 2 double 15" running from two 1200w class-d car amps. Runs for hours on a couple 110Ah batteries. We sometimes run double the number of bins from the same two amps. 
Minirig portable soundsystem movement
Back to Top
biotec View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc


Joined: 07 June 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 2932
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 October 2015 at 10:44am
I'd use forklift batteries for your application. They can handle deep discharges without instant death (although I'd still avoid going under 50% DOD), and they can be charged extremely quickly without plates buckling if you have the juice available. Just make sure you feed them lots of water as they'll gas hard off abig charger. 

The first thing that I would do is operate your sound system for a night off mains power and use a monitor to see what the long-term average power draw is. Batteries are heavy and expensive and if you get too few, you will damage them, and if you get too many, your wallet and truck suspension will hurt.

Just FYI. If your average power draw for 8 hours was 3,000w, you'd need around 4,000ah at 12v to avoid battery damage. This would be around 1.5 tonnes of batteries. It's probable that your power draw will be lower.
me so horny, me love you long throw.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.093 seconds.