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Miles View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 September 2013
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    Posted: 24 November 2015 at 2:39pm
Greetings,

Is is a question of taste to use delay-settings in a LMS in the context of Dub/Reggae Soundsystem rather then a technical question ?

 Is it something like "Modernist" vs. "Traditionalist" Approach in Sound ?

I always wondered how delaying was done back in the days before digital gear was common?

Prolly it just wasnt done, cause these analog crossovers have had very limited delay settings. 

Prolly it was done within rooms, like placing the bass horns 1-3m before the Mid/Top etc. ?

Prolly it was all about Reflex back in the days? Havent heard of pre.amps with built-in delays ever

- So I assume delaying comes more from a Pa-Approach which took over the sound-system scene in the last decade?

- I realised recently that there are a lot of big professional Sounds nowadays who are sounding like not delaying their settings (imho), so the big bad scoop impact comes a few milliseconds after mid/high kick. At the same time these sounds often use lms in their system. BBJ for example - why is that? just for gain/filter?

- Not delaying can be nice imho, it gives some tunes extra spice, at the same time u get a few ms time to get prepared for the bass drop, but for a hole night it can be annoying as well - And some systems which are not put together very accurate or systems where the crossover points are not adjusted well just sound like shit if not delayed, cause kick/low-mid & sub working "against each other"...

- Personally I allways spend a lot of time tuning the system to be as "Flat" as possible and dropping at the same time as far as possible. For me this is only possible because of digital gear. Sometimes I chance the delay of my mid/tops due to the size of venues, to make the system bit more "crunchy" etc.

I assume back in the days system-desiging / planning was much more important then 2day

- Whats ur preference in general? 

- Somebody got some storys how analogue/digital delaying was introduced to the Soundsystem & Pa World?

hopefully it makes sense ;) thx


Edited by Miles - 24 November 2015 at 6:39pm
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AlmostSalty View Drop Down
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Points: 415 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AlmostSalty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2015 at 3:31pm
I don't think a newer sound would be able to pull of having no delay on their system, actually only think jah shaka can pull that of because he has been around since way back and its like going back in time visiting a shaka dance. Back in the day you used what you had, these days things have become more accessible.. Plus, there's is to much to gain from proper signal processing, cables, drivers and so on to not have all that sorted.. Beer
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King Simeon View Drop Down
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Points: 788 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote King Simeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2015 at 8:05pm
Not sure the post was about delay used as an effect.

Older sounds are similar to modern sound systems, no real updating/interest in phase/delay dedicated equipment.

Not sure what you mean by p.a. taking over, i guess you mean more people spend money and buy sound equipment ready made and use the advice from the p.a. trade. Many would tell you that is p.a. is p.a. & sound system is sound system. the subject has been covered a fair bit on here. It depends on history/context.

Edited by King Simeon - 24 November 2015 at 8:07pm
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Miles View Drop Down
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Points: 76 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Miles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2015 at 9:32pm
yes I see, I do not mean it like preamp vs. lms / digital management, because nowadays I see lots of dub reggae sounds using preamp & lms, but they sound to me like there is nearly no time delaying to "even out" the different horn lengths, just like using a analoge preamp...

...my question was like, do they switch on/off the delay on the lms sometimes - kind of personal taste / question of style ?

...and in contrast how was time delaying done in the pre-digital era in the pa & live music buisness?

thx for answering
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veuch View Drop Down
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Points: 34 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote veuch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 November 2015 at 1:20pm
there are many UK style sounds out there without LMS or delay compensation, they may not be in phase, but sound great, and most importantly, they have vibes.

There are also more and more time-aligned systems out there, and although they are in phase, they don't always have the same vibes as they tend to sound like a PA.

I'm not the first one to say it, for us, reggae/dub people, vibes are more important than technical perfection, the trick going forward is to find the sweet spot
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wiz247 View Drop Down
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Points: 262 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wiz247 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2015 at 11:34am
Originally posted by veuch veuch wrote:

there are many UK style sounds out there without LMS or delay compensation, they may not be in phase, but sound great, and most importantly, they have vibes.

There are also more and more time-aligned systems out there, and although they are in phase, they don't always have the same vibes as they tend to sound like a PA.

I'm not the first one to say it, for us, reggae/dub people, vibes are more important than technical perfection, the trick going forward is to find the sweet spot



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tv00 View Drop Down
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Points: 1886 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tv00 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 December 2015 at 9:40pm
On some analogue filters phase can be adjusted.

This is one of the things that I never understood, because this must be the phase at a fixed frequecy I suppose? (the xover freq probably)
I mean out of phase at 30 hz is 1sec / 60 and out of phase at let's say 100hz is +1sec/200
Not the same!

Point is that if you get it in phase at xover point you should probably be good to go.
Another way to do this is to simply move the boxes in depth until they couple.
No alignment no good sound, but most sounds seems to prefer a wall with a lot of harsh combfiltering!

Problem is that when you turn the sub/kick/mid/high button on the preamp you're going to change that xover point! -Why? Because imagine that you "lift" the whole curve of a band (let's say kick) if you do that and then look at the sides where the curve crosses sub / mid, after lifting the curve (gaining kick) your low xover point is even lower and your high xover is even higher.
www.facebook.com/babysoundsystem
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