Speakerplans.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Newbie Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bridging Newb Looking to Clarify
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Bridging Newb Looking to Clarify

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
Message
AJ113 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 March 2016
Location: Hull UK
Status: Offline
Points: 123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by ceharden ceharden wrote:

Several of us on here are repair engineers and we get to see the cremated remains of amplifiers which have been abused...
I do appreciate that, but it isn't the same as actually trying it yourself. Punters will tell you anything, either to try and save face or because they don't actually know what they have done wrong. People are like that - all you really know for sure is that you are having fried amp and chips for tea.
I appreciate that what I am asking is 'against the rules' and technically it shouldn't even be contemplated, let alone attempted, but if nobody ever broke the rules and tried something different nothing would ever happen. So it would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually tried this (even if it was the result of a brain fart).
 
 
Back to Top
ceharden View Drop Down
The 10,000 Points Club
The 10,000 Points Club
Avatar

Joined: 05 June 2005
Location: Southampton
Status: Offline
Points: 11776
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 10:28pm
The problem is that you might get away with it the first time, the amp might just get a bit hot.  You might get away with it the second time with the amp just going into thermal protect. 

As I said before, there are some amplifiers which are designed to be able to cope with such accidental or intentional misuse and will activate protection circuitry to limit the output to a safe level or shut down.  Some amps, such as the one you are referring to have a lot less protection.  This probably means you'll get more power for less time!

If you had something by say Crest, Crown, EV, QSC etc, then you'd be a lot safer.

Incidentally, the Matrix amps are also a very good example why VU meters are often called Virtually Useless.  They do little other than look pretty, I would not trust them at all to actually tell you how close to the limit you are.  Again, some brands have much better metering/clip lights.

Back to Top
Wikl109 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 29 April 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 968
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 10:42pm
It's been asked on here before (some years back) about bridging the original single fan UK Power range in to loads lower than 8ohms.
I do seem to remember Andy (the designer of said amp) saying don't do it. I'm pretty certain he said the UKP-1600 & 2100 would be ok doing this as they were based on the STR twin fan layout.
I used to run a UKP-1300 bridged on bass (in to 8ohms) and I spoke to a repair engineer who knew the UKP amps inside & out.
He told me that range was never at it's best when run bridged and for reasons that were never known they always seemed to stress the output devices a lot more on one channel when being run that way. He advised against using them bridged even in to 8ohms.
To the OP, at best you risk the amp shuting down mid gig. At worst you'll destroy the amp and send a load of DC to your speakers.
Cheers, Chris.
Back to Top
AJ113 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 March 2016
Location: Hull UK
Status: Offline
Points: 123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 10:52pm
Ok firstly, the amp I'm planning to bridge is not the Matrix (It was the subject of my OP but it's not the amp I'm going to bridge), it will either be a Hill Audio LC1200 or an APart champ one.
 
Secondly, my Matrix has two fans, so based on what Andy has said maybe it would be ok anyway.
Back to Top
Wikl109 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 29 April 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 968
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 11:07pm
In that case things may be a bit different then. I'm not personally familiar with either the Hill or the Apart amp so couldn't comment there.
As for your Matrix UKP-1000 having 2 fans then i'd like to see a picture of that. I have owned & used many Matrix amps over the years and i've never seen a twin fan UKP-1000.
The 500, 1000 & 1300 were all basically the same design with different size transformers & amount of output devices giving them the different power ratings.
The original heavyweight UKP-1600 & 2100 came later and had a much bigger case. They also had a Powercon for the mains connection.
I'm not doubting what you say about your 1000 having two fans but I really would like to see that.
Is it not maybe one of the older grey range that came before the UKP's?
Cheers, Chris.
Back to Top
AJ113 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 March 2016
Location: Hull UK
Status: Offline
Points: 123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 11:36pm
Sorry, an error- the Matrix does indeed have one fan. So, probably ok for keeping cool on a hot summer's night or drying your hair maybe but no good for bridging into 4 ohms.
Back to Top
Wikl109 View Drop Down
Young Croc
Young Croc


Joined: 29 April 2009
Location: Yorkshire
Status: Offline
Points: 968
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wikl109 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 April 2016 at 11:48pm
Cheers, Chris.
Back to Top
audiomik View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 06 April 2010
Location: Bath, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 2962
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote audiomik Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2016 at 12:57pm
My earlier post was to try to explain in simple terms, good practice in amplifier loading.
With over 40 years experience being directly involved in Amplifier design, including destruction testing before release to market, you will need a full and comprehensive understanding of Load Lines, Load Phase responses - Power Factor - and thermal capability of not simply an Amplifier's output stage.

Please read up on and understand your theory before making avoidable mistakes and then expect someone else to fix the problem that you are deliberately creating

Mik
Warning! May contain Nuts
plus springs, washers, screws, etc, etc.
Back to Top
AJ113 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 March 2016
Location: Hull UK
Status: Offline
Points: 123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 April 2016 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by audiomik audiomik wrote:

...Please read up on and understand your theory before making avoidable mistakes and then expect someone else to fix the problem that you are deliberately creating...
You, too are making assumptions sir. Nowhere have I indicated that I would expect someone else fix problems of my own making. I'm a big boy, I can take responsibility for my own actions.
I appreciate that there is a boatload of stuff that I don't know about, but you don't need to know how an engine works in order to drive a car. My skills lie behind a board, the less I am involved in hooking up a PA system the better, but it's a case of having to since I'm attempting to establish a working PA.
 
Furthermore, if people didn't blow amps up then people who repair them wouldn't get any business. But I guess that's a separate issue.
 
 
 
Back to Top
AJ113 View Drop Down
Registered User
Registered User


Joined: 11 March 2016
Location: Hull UK
Status: Offline
Points: 123
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ113 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2016 at 12:23pm
So to conclude.....I didn't bridge anything. I just got extra amps. :)
Back to Top
odc04r View Drop Down
Old Croc
Old Croc
Avatar

Joined: 12 July 2006
Location: Sarfampton
Status: Offline
Points: 5483
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 July 2016 at 1:24pm
Probably a wise decision that'll benefit in the long run.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.06
Copyright ©2001-2023 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.