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connections &&impedence&& amps

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_Natty_ View Drop Down
Young Croc
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    Posted: 04 November 2016 at 2:51pm
some really silly question, apologize, but i'd like to better understand: 

 -If I well understand ho works an amp, the volume knobs on amps dont change the "how much power " is driven by amp but how fast he reach the full signal peak... so if got some drivers that for example is rated 100Wrms and i give to them a channel from an amp that delivers 3 times more like 300W is possible to drive by setting the knob to 1/3 of the power or there is no sens and big risk ? 

 -if an amp is 4pole spekeon output i can use 1+/1- and 2+/2- as in parallel connection for 2 speakers and the final load of the chan supposing 8ohm speakers will be 4ohm?

  -it is ever written on spec if is 4p or 2p out? there is a standard otherwise?

 -if i connect a 4p in a 2p connector just 1+/1- will works? 

 -if i bridge an amp the bridged out will be 4p? even if is not written?  

these are some amp's spec where i cant found replies to my question sorry...

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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 November 2016 at 5:19pm

An amplifier takes a small input voltage and increases it to a large output voltage. The input gain controls regulates the amount of input voltage needed to attain the maximum output voltage.

 

So if an amplifier requires 2 (input) volts to attain its maximum output voltage with the input gains set at maximum (Volume 10 from a home receiver perspective), if you reduce the input gain controls, you will need to feed the input level more volts (higher than 2 volts) in order to attain maximum output. 

 

It is no different than a flashlight. If a flashlight requires 3 volts to attain full intensity, if the batteries cannot deliver 3 volts (Due to weak batteries), the intensity will not be as bright as if the flashlight was getting 3 volts (Using a strong set of batteries).   

 

An amplifier with a 4 pole Speakon that uses “1+/1- and 2+/2- as in parallel connection for 2 speakers,” it means the left channel is 1+/1- and the right channel is 2+/2-. In bridged mode (if capable) you would use 1+ and 2+.

 

Best Regards,



Edited by Elliot Thompson - 04 November 2016 at 5:22pm
Elliot Thompson
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 12:19pm
many thanks Elliot, 
what i did last sat, i've to run 6 bass cabs... bad number for impedence i know. 
powesoft k10 is 4p out. 
i ran in stereo mode 2 4p cable, with 4p connectors in------2p +2p connectors on speakers side then 1 of the 2p straight in one scoop and the other one linked as parallel by a "Y" cable. is it right or i did a dummy loading? 

bass are good but at the end of the night for each stack 2 speakers are hotter than the 1 linked straight to the amp...something wrong here? 
cheers
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taurusty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote taurusty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 1:15pm
Powersoft K 10 differs from the norm in that each Speakon is 1 channel only on BOTH +/- 1 & 2 of that Speakon for current implications.

If I understand what U wrote, then using a 4core cable in any K10 Speakon to 3 scoops would have 1 channel feeding 1 scoop on say, +/-1 and the other 2 scoops on +/- 2 or vice versa.

Dunno why 2 speakers would be "hotter" though since they're all fed from the same channel.

All speakers same impedance/model?

Edited by taurusty - 09 November 2016 at 1:39pm
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 2:16pm
greetings taurusty,
 im really sorry for my eng, and thanks for taking time to "try to understand me". 

And yes u right i connect as u mention: 
we have 6 bass cabs. devided in 2 stack of 3 each. 
we have a k10 parallel/mono input/2chan out we have 2, 4p cables, one for each stack with 4p connectors as well. 
each cable is 4p wired in amp side 1+- 2+- then to speaker side 1+-1 going to one speaker straight the 2+2- going to 2 scoop with an "Y" 2p cable.  

All are same speakers yes at sam 8ohm impedence
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 November 2016 at 3:42pm
Hang on, I am getting confused.

So you have 1 K10. And you have 6 cabs. And you have 2 cables running from the K10 (Left and right) with +-1 connected to 1 cab, and +-2 connected to 2 cabs.

Making in total 4 cabs on channel 2, and 2 cabs on channel 1?

Correct me if I have read it wrong. Maybe a diagram would help explain if so.




Edited by odc04r - 09 November 2016 at 3:49pm
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 10:06am
apologize for the confusion,
no 
as u said oldc04r:
 +-1 to one cab +-2 to 2 cabs= 3 cabs for each side/cable/channel of the amp.
x2 channels/side make a total o 6 cabs...
i hope that now is more clear

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odc04r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 1:05pm
As TauRusty said, if you dig out the manual then it shows that +1 and +2 on each side of the amplifier are connected together. So they get the same signal.

The way you have them connected ignoring any losses in the cables means you have 3 cabs in parallel each side of the amplifier. One cab should not really be getting hotter than another in this situation unless perhaps they are on the inside of the stack and cannot cool as effectively as the edge bins.

Are all your cabinets totally identical inside, same drivers in all of them? Cabs definitely wired all in phase? If one cabinet is out of phase its driver will not move much and will get a lot hotter. Also you'll loose output.

Double and then triple check all of your drivers and speakon cables for phase errors perhaps.
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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 2:10pm
many thanks oldc04r 
all the cabs are super scoop 18" 18tbx100 loaded at 8ohm. 
as test to my sound to "be in phase" i use to: 
-disconnect all 
-connect each speaker one by one
 then 
-if the audible level increas-->ok are right phase
-if nothing change or even low volume-->some reversed cable somewhere  

the hotter speakers maybe was the 2 connected with the "Y" cable.
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odc04r View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote odc04r Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 3:13pm
It's not a bad method but I'd still take everything apart including those y cables apart and double then triple check for oddities. Then I'd probably spend a few £ ditch the y-cables, and make proper 4 pole link cables. As +1/+2 and -1/-2 connections are already connected internally in these amplifiers you are best off using a 4 pole link cable to each bin chained from single bin to single bin to get maximum benefit of using both conductive pairs all the time for less resistance.

You could even use 2.5mm^2 as because the 2 connections will be in parallel it will give the result of double the individual conductor area to give 4mm+^2 and that'll probably be fine. Or use doubled up 4mm for an even less resistive cable.

As some power is going to be dissipated in your y-cable, then the 2 bins after it will see a little bit less power then the one initially connected to the amp.

I'd ditch the y-cables personally and make up 4 new link cables with a 4 pole speakon each end fully wired and each driver connected to +-1 only and with +-2 passed through each box.

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Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _Natty_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 November 2016 at 4:47pm
yes i'll do something like that for the next session...will start to think how to connect from external...may i'll use things like: 


thanks for all the replies
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