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Skating rink sound system upgrade

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matty w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 11:09am
Couple of things lol
The horns u have I believe are slightly smaller than a wsx and are also s bins in there folding , pretty sure anyway ,
Technicly although there only in groupsof two ,they should give u solid output to 40 Hz only because there corner loaded .
Hire 4 more , so u have stacks of four , see how that goes , will also bring up the height of the stack ,which leads me onto my next question ,

Are the horns firing into the solid rink wall ? Can't imagine that helping too much with providing an even dispersion throughout the frequency range !

Third point .... When I said get some bass coming out the tops I didn't mean alter the crossover point ( low pass filter) on the bass horns , overlap them .

I would give the tops a 6db low shelf for starters , then move the highpass filter to 50/60 Hz .
Then keep the bass horns as they are except for moving the high pass up to say 40
The difference of changing the high pass from 30hz to 40hz on the bass horns will make a noticeable difference to how much level you can get from them and how they sound !

If your high pass is too low on a bass horn it can really choke the sound
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matty w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 11:18am
Cant help but think , those horns and how there implemented are the wrong tool for the job ..
It's hard to say without actually going there but I do think you'd be a lot happier with 4 twin 18" reflex bins loaded with b&c tbx100 or similar quality driver .
Two in each corner run from a big old heavy weight amp that really delivers the minerals !

But like others have said it sounds like the acoustics messing things up , just to bare in mind , Evan if u get the budget to throw a heap of proper subs in there , just because it's at a moderate level in there doesn't mean it's not Causing an earthquake next door
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norty303 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 1:05pm
Has anyone suggested turning the bass horns and using the corner as an extension to the horn yet?
That might help with the perceived extension issues too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tube Radio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 3:11pm
Matty, would something like the JBL SRX828SP sub work?
 
 
If those will work perhaps I can start out with one in each corner and see what I get.
 
Maybe then I could use several JBL SRX812P speakers for the tops.
 
 
I could then network the speakers and have total control of them from a computer or tablet and if I go with a tablet that would allow me to stand in the middle of the rink and adjust the system until it sounds its best.
 
The problem is I don't know if each speaker has to be turned on manually or if they come on when the power is applied or can they be turned on by the network and I cannot seem to find any info regarding that.
 
Another question I have.
 
I am thinking all the wall speakers are connected in parallel. Not sure if that is the proper way to do it though.
 
Also the output of the mixer goes to a box that combines the stereo signal to mono.
 
Pretty sure that isn't the best way to do it.
 
Here's what I'm thinking.
 
Since the speakers have two inputs just run the stereo signal to each speaker and let the two channel mixer on each speaker do the job of making the signal mono.


Edited by Tube Radio - 29 June 2017 at 3:35pm
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Peter Jan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Jan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 3:36pm
I have read through all these pages and have to say this : You can throw in any number/type of cabinets of bass, tops whatever with as much power as humanly possible, as long as cabinets are not time-alligned, things will change from bad to worse and back, but never get any better.
In a venue like that, the only sensible way to go would be hanging everything in a center position. Only subs there can work satisfactory, but better would be to get everything up there against the ceiling, subs in the middle pointing straight down with tops around, pointed around to your audience, every top feeding a slice of this big pie that is your venue. Big chance you won't need any more or other cabs/amps to make this work real good. You'll be amazed what 4 subs and a decent number of small tops can do when positioned right in a particular venue.
Leaving the loudspeaker positions as they are and trying to make it work good by adding processing, speakers, amps, and so on.... will only lead to wasted time/money/effort and headache.
If center cluster hanging is not a possibility for whatever reason, than just let everything be as it is.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tube Radio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 3:44pm

Center cluster is definitely not possible unfortunately.
 
I was in one rink one time that used several Electrovoice speakers that had the aperiodic vented midrange driver.
 
They had them arranged around the edge of the rink suspended from the ceiling and that was the cleanest clearest sound I'd ever heard in a rink. Off to the side of the rink they had some sort of Peavey dual 15" sub which sounded ok then along the back wall they had four Cerwin Vega horn loaded subs which weren't on and might have been only used for certain types of music.
 
I think that if I position the tops properly around the edge of the rink so that no two speakers are directly facing each other I should be ok.
 
I can take more pictures Friday night of the rink itself.


Think I'll just leave the tops alone and get four of the unpowered version of those JBL subs and use the existing QSC amps to power them.

I really don't need to muck with the tops given they sound good enough as is.



Edited by Tube Radio - 29 June 2017 at 4:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mini-mad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 4:52pm
Stereo to mono sum is perfectly fine... don't worry so much about that. But moving the subs away from the rink and into the corners for a few free db is always a good idea.

So as suggested... use all mid-tops at full range, stick the 4x subs you have in all four corners and then raise the high pass on them to 40 and the top low pass to ABOUT 12 ish and let the tops overlap with the subs.

It's a free experiment and the outcome could show you the direction you want to head in.
If it sounds like a gorilla is trying to escape, turn it down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tube Radio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 June 2017 at 5:01pm
I'll know Friday night when I lower the crossover frequency if the sound quality improves any.
 
Now the passive version of the JBL sub has a -3dB of 47Hz, but the active version is -3dB at 35Hz plus the DSP functions would provide far more adjustments than just regular amps would.
 
If it is possible to bypass the crossover of the powered subs I could use the existing crossover which will allow me to adjust the crossover frequency and levels without having to do it at each speaker.


Edited by Tube Radio - 29 June 2017 at 5:13pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tube Radio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 5:21am
I got some good news.

The LF switches on the tops were set to FLAT and i lowered the crossover to 70Hz. The sound is much better.

I'm still gonna suggest going with the JBL subs one per corner which may improve things further.

EDIT:

I took more pictures of the rink and will post them when I get home.

Edited by Tube Radio - 01 July 2017 at 6:02am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tube Radio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 July 2017 at 8:04am
Here's more pictures of the rink.

If the rink decides to go with the JBL SRX812P for the tops and four JBL SRX828SP subs (one in each corner) then in addition to one top haning above the sub in each of the four corners how many more tops will I need?






One thing I've learned is there's the way books, experience, math, measurements ETC... says it needs to be for a given result and then there's the way of something just works even though the previous said it shouldn't.
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