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JonB67
Young Croc Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
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Posted: 06 June 2016 at 12:14pm |
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A friend and I have started a social dance venue. We spent big on the lights and bought cheap sound to get us started with a view to upgrading.
Current rig 2 x numark 1900watt amps 2x peavey pro15 tops 2x peavey prosub 2x wharfdale force 9s run in a room 10 metres by 20 We need flexibility as we've booked a venue three times this size and also some smaller. I'm looking to build 2 subs and four tops but need to focus on the subs first with an awareness that choosing a whole system requirement then building the bits I need as I go. Ive been lurking in here for some months and read ALOT. 1)Bass Have settled on bass reflex but don't know whether to go for 15" or 18", the inspiration for each being the q15 and CSG's BMS loaded box respectively. We play a range of music from modern dance tunes to guitar bands an possibly some swing. I like that the 18s will go lower but don't know how much that compromises its dynamic musicality in the upper bass ranges. 2) Tops. 12+1 or 2x8+1? What's to choose between them? Does this depend on which sub I choose or will double 8+1 drop enough to meet the 18s? I'll be running 4 tops as people dance as close as <1.5m from the speakers and without there is a huge hole in the middle of the soundstage for people dancing there. 3) Perceived throw At the moment our competitors are VERY loud in front of the speakers to get it loud enough at the back of the room (Different rig, obviously) whereas ours is very uniform and I'd hate to lose this feature. Any help on how to chose to retain this gratefully received. Thanks for helping me start my journey! Jon |
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RUS
Old Croc Joined: 02 September 2008 Status: Offline Points: 3471 |
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6x Gsubs job done.
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dlyxover
Old Croc Joined: 14 June 2007 Location: Liverpool Status: Offline Points: 1502 |
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The performance of the Q15 are very impressive for the size.
I did my interpretation of the Q15 and run 1 q15 to 1 of my 8"+1" tops. where are you based? Maybe hire some boxes and see what works for you? Edited by dlyxover - 06 June 2016 at 1:01pm |
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In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth
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Conanski
Old Croc Joined: 26 January 2006 Location: Ottawa, Canada Status: Offline Points: 2545 |
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In both cases this indicates a poor choice in speaker deployment and the solution is simple.. hoist the speakers up as high as possible and angle them down. That does 2 things.. it somewhat equalizes the distance between the speakers so those closest aren't blasted and because you're not trying to power through people to reach the back a lower overall output level can be used, and it minimizes reflections off hard surfaces which improves sound quality. |
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JonB67
Young Croc Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
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Thanks for a detailed and informative response. Much appreciated.
I've pretty much chosen the drivers and think 18s will give me more flexibility across venue sizes. i'll start the design phase for the subs now and ask more questions as they arise! Im in South Devon. If anyone is near me and could let me hear their homemade rig id really love to. Jon |
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JonB67
Young Croc Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
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Btw i already have my speakers quite high but not angled down. I see your point about hoisting them up. Will experiment but don't think i can get them high enough to eliminate the need for infill speakers.
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krazyneil
Young Croc Joined: 06 December 2007 Location: Bolton ,lancs Status: Offline Points: 1206 |
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you could look at the B&C Sub 18 design,its quite friendly with drivers and is a proven design,you just build more as you need them , the p audio e600 driver is good at the budget end
and you could upgrade drivers when money allows tony also designed a Q18 sub but it really needs bms driver to make it work to its potential which arnt cheap lol with regard to tops, a good quality 12 & 1.4 would be my choice if your using upto 4 single 18 bass bins also the most scaable depending on the type of event you do if you plan on more bins then id go with a twin 10 &1 design or twin 12&1.4 maybe
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GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!
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DJ-Versatile
Registered User Joined: 04 March 2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 392 |
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I've designed and built a pair of budget bass reflex bins and a double 18 of my own design using the p-audio e18 600s and you can't beat them bang for buck. So if you are on a budget I highly recommend these.
The double i built has gone into a venue along with 4x 8+1" mid top cabs. The venue capacity is 120 and due to the strict noise regulations set it doesn't even run at 1/2 capacity. I have had nothing but compliments on how it sounds. Admittedly there is a small amount of processing done but that's to be expected. Overall i managed to build the double bass and 4 mid top boxes for well under a grand p.s. Mid tops were using fane 8-225 and bms 4524
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If you are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room....
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JonB67
Young Croc Joined: 22 April 2016 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 1376 |
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Thank you all for your input.
From what i see the p audio e18 600 is £115 which is cheaper than the bms 18s430v2 i was planning to use which is £190. Realistically what is to choose between them? The fane drivers seem insanely cheap! My objective was to build something that would rival the top pro audio stuff and i guess I'm not going to be able to do that with the cheapest components? |
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dlyxover
Old Croc Joined: 14 June 2007 Location: Liverpool Status: Offline Points: 1502 |
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I really like the BMS 18s430v2, great sounding in the correct enclosure.
Get the best driver you can afford If you have the budget get the BMS.
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In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth
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DJ-Versatile
Registered User Joined: 04 March 2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 392 |
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This is true to a certain degree, imagine the amount of research and development that goes into these top end pro rigs, and it's not all about the boxes at the end, but the amps and processing too. If it was dead simple to throw a couple of cheap components in a box and get the same sound as a £3k equivalent, the top end boys would have no business. I'm not saying it's impossible but you should always buy the best that your budget allows. The funny thing is you can make boxes relatively cheaply that sound better than most middle of the road manufacturers, but don't expect FK1/Void/Ohm sound quality and power on a shoestring budget :)
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If you are the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room....
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krazyneil
Young Croc Joined: 06 December 2007 Location: Bolton ,lancs Status: Offline Points: 1206 |
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If you've the budget for the bus drivers then go for them on a different level to p audio
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GOD TOLD ME TO DO IT !!!!!
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