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help with horn design cerwin vega 189es
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Wigge View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 February 2005 at 7:41am

hi!

i have 8 old cerwin vega boxes i think they are called b48  its a w bin 60cm high 60cm deep and 120cm wide

they work fine from 50hz and up

but i want more deep bass  and i think there was a bigger version out with same driver that worked better under 50hz..

so now i ask is someone could help me calculate a new horndesign or might have plans that those drivers schuld work good in with more deep bass atleast down to 35-40hz..

normaly i use them in pair of 2  

parameters

cerwinvega 189es

fs 30.5 hz

qms 3.86

vas 244l

cms 0.1514727mm/n

mms 179.76g

rms 8.9248kg/s

xmax 5.2mm

sd 1065cm2

qts 0.227

spl 96.7db 1 w/m

qes 0.241

re 5.0 ohm

z 8 ohm

bl 26.73 tm

pe 500 w

 

hope someone could help me out:)

Wigge

 

 
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JD01 View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Points: 819 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2005 at 1:12pm
4 of them per stack should already give you 35-40Hz. If not, Cervin Vega just did another boom box again. Much output around 60Hz, nothing below, not much above then....
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 February 2005 at 5:03pm

"4 of them per stack should already give you 35-40Hz. "

How could they possibly? The air path length is on the order of 4', looks like 64hz to me.
djk
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2005 at 4:08am
I have four of those same boxes you are reffering to, in
a basement collecting dust.

You can either;

1. Vent the box to get more extension.

2. Sell them

3. Build the larger version to it (48x 48x 24) However, you might
as well build the lab horn if thats the case.

I chose 1, vent the box. The speaker itself will not offer any
sub bass even if you build a larger horn for it. The 189 ES, is
a product of 1976, and, focuses on music purtained to 1976.

Once I vented the box, I was - 3 dB @ 50 Hertz, opposed
- 10 dB @ 50 Hz using one box.

All you need to do is build new removable panel where
you would insert the speaker in the box, and make a vent
in the new panel.

With the four boxes vented, I can easily get down to 40 Hertz.
If you are want lower than 40 Hertz, build four labs, or go Reflex.

Best Regards.



Edited by Elliot Thompson
Elliot Thompson
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JD01 View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Points: 819 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JD01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2005 at 1:42pm
_djk_: As I said, 'if not, CV just did another boom box'. I don't know how the path inside the box is, but from the size I thought that they have given it a bit of low end. Most CV horns are 60cm wide 90cm high and either 60 or 90 deep. And most of them are boom boxes with big hump around 60Hz. There are exceptions like the T36 which play really good from 30 Hz up in stacks of at least 4.
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2005 at 2:59pm
JD01

Its a W Bin.


Elliot Thompson
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2005 at 7:49pm

"I chose 1, vent the box. The speaker itself will not offer any
sub bass even if you build a larger horn for it. The 189 ES, is
a product of 1976, and, focuses on music purtained to 1976."

The Qts is too low to get any real bass from venting.

Build up some of these, they will work fine with the CV 189:

http://www.speakerstore.nl/index.php?l=nl&pg=11&c=18

My empty CV B48s went to the landfill in 1978.
djk
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freddyi View Drop Down
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Points: 936 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote freddyi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2005 at 1:48am
- played bass though PV's version - 64Hz was just fine - who wants to bang on open E all nite?  -  -Traynor's short single path "horn" for YBA3 looked kooler & sounded OK in pairs with the 100W top and Fender - (I had those metalnecks) 
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Points: 6002 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2005 at 3:07am

Bass guitar isn't the real problem.

A few years back Stereophile did a spectrum analysis of a Fender P-bass playing an open 'E'. The second harmonic, E2, was 9dB louder!

Drum kit likes to see 50hz if possible. 40hz tuned reflex boxes can cause a cone excursion problem here.

Kill the keyboard player. Actually, he likes being heard too. If you explain the problem to him, he can find stuff that sounds good on your trash PA, and play some 'missing fundamental' games if need be.
djk
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Wigge View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2005 at 3:19am

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

I have four of those same boxes you are reffering to, in
a basement collecting dust.

You can either;

1. Vent the box to get more extension.

2. Sell them

3. Build the larger version to it (48x 48x 24) However, you might
as well build the lab horn if thats the case.

I chose 1, vent the box. The speaker itself will not offer any
sub bass even if you build a larger horn for it. The 189 ES, is
a product of 1976, and, focuses on music purtained to 1976.

Once I vented the box, I was - 3 dB @ 50 Hertz, opposed
- 10 dB @ 50 Hz using one box.

All you need to do is build new removable panel where
you would insert the speaker in the box, and make a vent
in the new panel.

With the four boxes vented, I can easily get down to 40 Hertz.
If you are want lower than 40 Hertz, build four labs, or go Reflex.

Best Regards.

 

hello

i have tested the driver in other horn boxes with more subbass out put so i donīt see the problem to use the driver below 50hz..

they used this driver in the old earthquake cinema boxes and they went deep?

one more thing   one more problem with the old b48 boxes is that they have started to give much "box noises" its on its way to fall a part that also why i want to build new boxes...

thanxs

Wigge

 
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Elliot Thompson View Drop Down
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Points: 5176 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elliot Thompson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2005 at 4:15am
The driver used in the larger box was the 188 EB. (QTS 0.29)

A driver like yours is not going to give you a lot of  Subbass
under 50Hz. It wasn't designed to do so. (QTS 0.22)

Subbass requires a QTS of 0.3 or more. Many use QTS 0.2
for subass, but, they have a large xmax. Where as the
189 ES is too small.
 
Since the boxes, are totaled, why don't you just sell everything
and build from scratch, and, buy the right speakers for the
job.

Thats the most I can tell you.

Best Regards,
Elliot Thompson
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Wigge View Drop Down
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Points: 12 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wigge Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 February 2005 at 8:54am

Originally posted by Elliot Thompson Elliot Thompson wrote:

The driver used in the larger box was the 188 EB. (QTS 0.29)

A driver like yours is not going to give you a lot of  Subbass
under 50Hz. It wasn't designed to do so. (QTS 0.22)

Subbass requires a QTS of 0.3 or more. Many use QTS 0.2
for subass, but, they have a large xmax. Where as the
189 ES is too small.
 
Since the boxes, are totaled, why don't you just sell everything
and build from scratch, and, buy the right speakers for the
job.

Thats the most I can tell you.

Best Regards,

 

from the begining 188eb was made only for reflex system

like b-118  a small bassreflex system with good responce/output

i think you mean 189je   it has much more bl (around 40) and lower qts like 0.15-0.17

Wigge
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