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High(er) Efficiency System From Scratch
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Blaize110 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 22 December 2011 at 8:15pm
While i've been tweaking my other sound system, ive been getting some thoughts for more-long term changes and have been thinking of a more efficient speaker system than HiFi speakers.

This is what I thinking:

 - 8" or 10" driver in a horn similar to the MT102
 - Compression driver or piezo braced in the mouth of the horn
 - 2 x 10" reflex box underneath

Here is a rather bad MS Paint representation of what I was thinking of:

So my questions are:

1. Would this work/sound good?
2. If so, can you suggest plans/drivers that would work well (i'm still on a bit of a budget)


Edited by Blaize110 - 17 January 2012 at 10:25pm
Rory - http://www.cheltenham-disco.co.uk
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Saturnus View Drop Down
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Have a look at the Boominator. It might be exactly what you're looking for.
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Blaize110 View Drop Down
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Points: 449 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blaize110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2011 at 8:52pm
Hmm, I was possibly thinking of something a little bigger than the boominator, but will have another look.

Edited by Blaize110 - 22 December 2011 at 8:53pm
Rory - http://www.cheltenham-disco.co.uk
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rich_gale View Drop Down
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http://forum.speakerplans.com/my-new-12v-rig-modular_topic27983_post278330.html?KW=modular#278330

this worked really well indeed.  it was able to be moved around by 1 man.  sounded phat!  and even with the low efficiency car amp doing bass the litium pack made up for it.  40 or so 18650 cells! - was worrying wiring that lot up:)
REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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sorry.  here is the completed system.
REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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infrasound View Drop Down
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Two 10s underneath a hornloaded 8/10 will be very disappointing. Have you considered the volume of a hornloaded 10" vs. a small sealed/vented? Also dispersion.

A Kappa 15LF in a compact reflex would work well.
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Blaize110 View Drop Down
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Points: 449 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blaize110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 December 2011 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

Two 10s underneath a hornloaded 8/10 will be very disappointing. 

In terms of the 10"s wont be able to keep up?
Rory - http://www.cheltenham-disco.co.uk
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Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

Two 10s underneath a hornloaded 8/10 will be very disappointing. Have you considered the volume of a hornloaded 10" vs. a small sealed/vented? Also dispersion.

A Kappa 15LF in a compact reflex would work well.

the fact is that any horn for use on a 8/10" driver will not add any real horn loading over the operating range at the size being discussed here.  for true horn loading of the operating range of the 8" he will need a horn/cabinet so big it makes the 12v concept pointless.


the undersized horn will effect perceived volume by providing wave guide effect though.  waveguided midrange outdoors is handy for 'throw' in a slight breeze.  and allows better 'cutting through' of vocals when there are a number of people talking over the music. 

I agree that a single 15" would do a better job than a pair of 10" drivers.  but a pair of good quality 10's can be run from a sure 2x100w amp, with hpf at 70hz and kick you in the chest at 10 mtrs.  you cant bridge the sure 2x100w amp for a single 15", a real shame.
REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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Blaize110 View Drop Down
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Points: 449 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blaize110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2011 at 9:47am
Originally posted by rich_gale rich_gale wrote:

Originally posted by infrasound infrasound wrote:

Two 10s underneath a hornloaded 8/10 will be very disappointing. Have you considered the volume of a hornloaded 10" vs. a small sealed/vented? Also dispersion.

A Kappa 15LF in a compact reflex would work well.

the fact is that any horn for use on a 8/10" driver will not add any real horn loading over the operating range at the size being discussed here.  for true horn loading of the operating range of the 8" he will need a horn/cabinet so big it makes the 12v concept pointless.

the undersized horn will effect perceived volume by providing wave guide effect though.  waveguided midrange outdoors is handy for 'throw' in a slight breeze.  and allows better 'cutting through' of vocals when there are a number of people talking over the music. 

I agree that a single 15" would do a better job than a pair of 10" drivers.  but a pair of good quality 10's can be run from a sure 2x100w amp, with hpf at 70hz and kick you in the chest at 10 mtrs.  you cant bridge the sure 2x100w amp for a single 15", a real shame.

Thanks for the advice, so do you think it is worth adding the waveguide to an 8" then?
I had been looking about and saw the "Jack 10" from this site - http://billfitzmaurice.net/Jack.html

Other options to my mind are:
 - Just add an 8/6" driver in a sealed enclosure with a CD for mid/top
 - Do what you did in your project and have a large mid horn and a tweeter.

I actually have the 4x100W Sure amp for this one so have been looking around to see if I can find 4ohm 10" drivers for the bottom, and then run the mid/high off their own channels so I can cross everything before the amp.
Rory - http://www.cheltenham-disco.co.uk
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i think it would be worth designing the mid/high cabinet as a stand alone unit that can be used without the dual 10" box if required.

design a 8"+ CTS/Powerline piezo/supertweeter reflex cabinet, tuned to about 100hz, but then rework the box so the 8" is actually set into the front of the box in a waveguide arrangement.  maybe take influence from the waveguides used on the 3 way active mackies from a few years ago.  this will add a bit of directivity to the upper band the 8" occupies - adding perceived extra volume when you stand in front of the cabinet.
 
the 100hz tuning will make the cabinet have a grunt to it.  punchy.  

set a hpf at about 100hz on the cabinet and then work out what bass setup you need to keep up.  i recon a band pass bass cab would be a good way to go.  2x 10" to allow use of all of your 4 channels.  2 on bass, 1 on mid, 1 on hf
REFLEX ALL THE WAY.... (however, im playing with horns again...) That ok Mister Valiant? :)
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Blaize110 View Drop Down
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Points: 449 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Blaize110 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 December 2011 at 7:24pm
Have been doing some more searching and have found the Xtro cab which uses an 8" mid section (XT8). The moulded flare is rather expensive but I like the idea of making it out of wood, as suggested in the original plan. 

So my idea has now grown into making something a bit like the Mackie SA1232, although it uses a 6" mid driver, with inbuilt amp and wheels on the corners. 

I was thinking:
1" CD and wide flare
8" or 6" waveguide/horned mid
2 x 10" or 12"




Edited by Blaize110 - 23 December 2011 at 8:06pm
Rory - http://www.cheltenham-disco.co.uk
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hond View Drop Down
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Originally posted by rich_gale rich_gale wrote:

the undersized horn will effect perceived volume by providing wave guide effect though.  waveguided midrange outdoors is handy for 'throw' in a slight breeze.  and allows better 'cutting through' of vocals when there are a number of people talking over the music.

are you suggesting some kind of magic here, rich? 

I don't know what you mean by throw but all a horn does, is make the sound louder and control the direction of frequencies into a smaller angle.. It also adds distortion
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