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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Horn Plan
    Posted: 03 January 2017 at 10:00pm
Hey

I've been looking at moving on to a fully hornloaded system for a while now and have finally finished tweaking (I can never seem to stop).

I want to get some wood cut to size at b&q asap so any help with regards to glaringly obvious mistakes or problems with sims that i might have missed is greatly appreciated.

The external dimensions are 122x80x52cm and is designed around the fane colossus 18b

If want any more info or more detailed drawings just let me know.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cookie-dj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2017 at 10:31pm
B&Q wont cut angles. And they don't have any decent ply in stock either
You can't polish a turd!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mobiele eenheid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 January 2017 at 11:06pm
If I copied you input parameters carefully your simulated internal volume is 540 litres. The external dimensions of your cabinet are giving about 500 litres, say about 70 litres for wood panels, meaning your internal volume present is 440 litres.
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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 January 2017 at 12:12am
Thanks for the reply's guys.

cookie-dj - Thanks yea i know they don't do angles, im just getting all the 'straight' panel edges cut to size and cutting the rest on my own. and the first batch will be made from mdf. if it all pans out okay i will sell them and remake out of ply. (plus its cheaper with mdf if make any mistakes at first)

mobiele eenheid - yes sorry i should have mentioned that my sim takes into account the exit behaviour of FLH's (i.e. the air immidiately in front of the mouth is still coupled to the horn). discounting this the horn volume is approx 400L according to hornresp.

I gotta say though Johan that i've had 4 cubos 18's for a while now and they have always put a smile on my face, so many thanks for that wonderful design. I just felt like a change and a challenge so this designing my own seemed the obvious next step.


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Mark James View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 January 2017 at 10:02pm
looks like a larger simplified 186 at first glance,
be interesting to see how these get on. what are
you intending them to be used with/range etc?
be nice to see more drawings etc too .
looks good so far :-)
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?
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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 January 2017 at 8:22am
Thats exactly what i was going for, the 1850/186 horns are just a tad too short for my taste. Intended usable freq range 35 - 120 hz with a 65 cm 12" horn on top (again another of my own designs).

Hornresp puts the -3db point around 38hz with a 35hz (12db bw) highpass and im guessing it wont really play nice above 100 because of the two sharp bends.

Will post more plots and drawings as i progress.

Would people say the bracing is adaquate on the drawings? They are the white pieces on there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mstep77 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2017 at 9:41pm
You're modelling in 0.5pi space which will flatter the response a lot! I guess you're doing this to simulate a stack of 4 horns coupled together?

I'm not sure your horn length will be enough to get down to 38/35Hz. Can you post the hornresp plot for the excursion of the cone? I have a feeling this might be quite high at reasonable power levels and also considering your rear chamber is pretty big.

I think 120Hz should be fine on the high side although a 12 on a 65cm horn will be pushed to get down to 120hz so maybe you'll want to extend that around 70cm.

Looks decent though :-)
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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 12:19am
Yea modelling in 4pi to simulate 4 horns stacked together.

The horn length is circa 215 cm give or take. Im not sure how to manually calculate so can only really go with what hornresp is telling me.

Here's some plots with excursion, and you are right xmax is reached fairly soon. The top sim in picture are with 450w and the bottom is 300w. As you can see i've had to move the highpass up to accomodate for the extra power to keep within xmax.



Im not entirely certain what im doing with the mid horn just yet as it is still in the tweaking phase but thanks for the suggestion.

Im currently trying to piece together some cut lists to take to B&Q next week. Will post them up when i've finished them.

EDIT: if you want the raw excursion plots at various power levels just let me know and will upload them when get a moment.

Also quick question. Has anyone found hornresp overdoes the power a bit. 300w in 4 cabs shouldn't be giving me 135dB surely? would have thought double that be a more realistic. (i know its to do with more than just wattage, but as a general standpoint it seems a bit off)

Cheers!


Edited by Mikkel - 13 January 2017 at 12:27am
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Lili View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lili Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 2:15am
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

yes sorry i should have mentioned that my sim takes into account the exit behaviour of FLH's (i.e. the air immidiately in front of the mouth is still coupled to the horn).

You may not do this, because hornresponse does this already.

Besides
In your drawing the port (Ap1, Lp) between speaker and horn throat is missing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marko Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 8:56am
Originally posted by Mikkel Mikkel wrote:

Yea modelling in 4pi to simulate 4 horns stacked together.

The horn length is circa 215 cm give or take. Im not sure how to manually calculate so can only really go with what hornresp is telling me.

Here's some plots with excursion, and you are right xmax is reached fairly soon. The top sim in picture are with 450w and the bottom is 300w. As you can see i've had to move the highpass up to accomodate for the extra power to keep within xmax.



Im not entirely certain what im doing with the mid horn just yet as it is still in the tweaking phase but thanks for the suggestion.

Im currently trying to piece together some cut lists to take to B&Q next week. Will post them up when i've finished them.

EDIT: if you want the raw excursion plots at various power levels just let me know and will upload them when get a moment.

Also quick question. Has anyone found hornresp overdoes the power a bit. 300w in 4 cabs shouldn't be giving me 135dB surely? would have thought double that be a more realistic. (i know its to do with more than just wattage, but as a general standpoint it seems a bit off)

Cheers!


Mikkel, which simulation software is this?

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Mikkel View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikkel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 12:12pm
Lili - I see, i wasnt aware of that. Do you have any litterature supporting that, as I have read quite extensively on Hornresp and have never seen such a function. In regards to your second point, the drawings arent very clear on here but if you zoom in there are two lines on the top panel (i.e. where the obvious horn beginning is) denoting where the aperture is supposed to be.

Marko - The software im using is called Hornresp. You can download it for free online, just search for it in google. Its an excellent program made by a guy called David Mcbean.


Edited by Mikkel - 14 January 2017 at 3:21am
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Mark James View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark James Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2017 at 1:39pm
i missed the porting bit, this is a ported horn then? 
cant work out how its ported tho lol
i might have to sim this with a few cheap drivers see if it miht be an option for a small free party stack, block of four with semi cheap ish drivers and a proline running them should do nicely
If you want people to feel the bass then a reflex design is probably best as you get the most air movement per decibel from those.      errrrr yes wtf?
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