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How To Power High Powered System From Battery

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APW View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 4:55pm
Or use the vehicle engine to generate the power with something like.....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Power-Tec-4KW-single-phase-full-sine-wave-240V-generator-/252100507543?hash=item3ab25c7797

I think the one in the link is to small but it'll give you an idea.

Far cheaper than batteries and inverters



Edited by APW - 07 October 2015 at 4:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 5:40pm
Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:

Well my answer is ..... forget it. Use a generator.

There's a point past which battery power just doesn't make any sense - Id say 1kW (_maybe_ 2)
.... and you're way way way beyond that.

One of the better 4ch class D car amps like Pioneer, Alpine et al can do a decent job (in 2 x 8R bridge mode) of running - say a pair of 12 or 15 midtops - and a big money _truly_ high-powered class D car sub amp would drive 2 or 3 15" or 18" bass boxes - total of around 1-1.5kW or so - but still you'd be needing serious amounts of lead to power that for 8 hours ..... 

It can be done using conventional amps and a big battery bank, don`t listen to the nay-sayers.
 
I think you need to look at what we`ve done....




The size of our batteries gives us 6-8hr on no charge. With Sun & Wind at full tilt we can just about run even... so almost a 24hr system in the Summer ! But it also means our trailer is close to 2 3/4 tonnes !

Hopefully we will be moving to a Li-Po battery setup next year... and save some weight !

.p.




Edited by Phil B - 07 October 2015 at 11:54pm
Mostly harmless.... except if catering is shut.

Solar Sound System Shennanigans..http://diyhifi.biz/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ganon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 7:40pm
I cant see a problem in using car amps.
Let's Take two bassface db1.2 for the Tham18. Parallel two of them. It will give you 4 ohm, that's 350 watt for each speaker. Do the same with the other two.

For top you could use two pioneer gm-d8604. You could drive it normal with two speakers per side of the amp, that will give you 150 watt per speaker, or bridge both sites of the amp and parallel two speakers into 4 ohm, but that will push the amp really hard, and maybe overheat it.
Or find another bassface for the tops.

That will end up in about 30 A in consumption.

This is what some of the biggest sound systems at Roskilde festival do, and they play loud enough.

http://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/brands-bass-face/


Edited by Ganon - 07 October 2015 at 8:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amlu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 8:25pm
sure has got some beefy amps...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2500-Watt-Class-D-Amplifier-Board-IRS2092-/351399559947?hash=item51d10bc30b


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ganon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 9:02pm
1500 watt. 2 ohm. at 85 V. And that price, it seems useless in a battery powered setup.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amlu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 9:11pm
got one of those in my system:
http://store.sure-electronics.com/audio/audio-amplifier-board/high-power/aa-ab32514
been running it 36v from 3 batteries, is to power 15inch reflex beymas, was doing its job nicely.

48volts planned for next season...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 October 2015 at 11:57pm
Originally posted by Phil B Phil B wrote:

It can be done using conventional amps and a big battery bank, don`t listen to the nay-sayers.


Well - the reason I said "forget it" is because the OP said he has zero experience with batteries.

I nearly cited your system as an example - but - would you say something on that scale is suitable for a battery novice ? :-)

The generator option is a well-trodden path - advice readily available.


REMEMBER....POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 12:00am
Originally posted by Ganon Ganon wrote:

I cant see a problem in using car amps.
Let's Take two bassface db1.2 for the Tham18. Parallel two of them. It will give you 4 ohm, that's 350 watt for each speaker. Do the same with the other two.

For top you could use two pioneer gm-d8604. You could drive it normal with two speakers per side of the amp, that will give you 150 watt per speaker, or bridge both sites of the amp and parallel two speakers into 4 ohm, but that will push the amp really hard, and maybe overheat it.
Or find another bassface for the tops.

That will end up in about 30 A in consumption.

This is what some of the biggest sound systems at Roskilde festival do, and they play loud enough.

http://www.thompsonsltd.co.uk/brands-bass-face/


I agree that something good could be done with 3-4-5 well chosen car amps and 100Kg or so of lead - but it would still be nowhere near driving that speaker stack to its full potential (as specified by the OP).

Even the above would involve some pretty damn heavy cabling etc., some knowledge/research to make it safe and reliable .... and probably involve an inverter (+ a bit more lead) to run outboard stuff (unless you're gonna go modding LMS, mixer, EQ etc.).




Edited by slaz - 08 October 2015 at 12:07am
REMEMBER....POLITICIANS AND DIAPERS SHOULD BE CHANGED OFTEN AND FOR THE SAME REASON
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SamV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 3:08am
Start small, grow big.

You'd be surprised how little power you need to cover a side. The first question is how big is your audience area?

I've seen 3 xtro's a side cover several thousand people. Do you really need that much? If not, then scale back on the power and amps. If you're doing live bands etc then high pass at 60hz, hell to be honest that'd even do for most genres.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 7:24am
Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:

Originally posted by Phil B Phil B wrote:

It can be done using conventional amps and a big battery bank, don`t listen to the nay-sayers.


Well - the reason I said "forget it" is because the OP said he has zero experience with batteries.

I nearly cited your system as an example - but - would you say something on that scale is suitable for a battery novice ? :-)

The generator option is a well-trodden path - advice readily available.


 
It is not a difficult set-up. Just bigger batteries and bigger invertor.
What is difficult is charging the batteries! If its for a one hit battery draw and then recharge later its possible.
 
 
p
Mostly harmless.... except if catering is shut.

Solar Sound System Shennanigans..http://diyhifi.biz/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sapro2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 9:34am
Originally posted by Phil B Phil B wrote:

Originally posted by slaz slaz wrote:

Originally posted by Phil B Phil B wrote:

It can be done using conventional amps and a big battery bank, don`t listen to the nay-sayers.


Well - the reason I said "forget it" is because the OP said he has zero experience with batteries.

I nearly cited your system as an example - but - would you say something on that scale is suitable for a battery novice ? :-)

The generator option is a well-trodden path - advice readily available.


 
It is not a difficult set-up. Just bigger batteries and bigger invertor.
What is difficult is charging the batteries! If its for a one hit battery draw and then recharge later its possible.
 
 
p


Ok, but what I MUST say is if the OP is determined to have a huge battery bank to make sure that he researches batteries in depth and has adequate short circuit protection. You do not need that many batteries to kill a man. You, Phil look like you know what you are doing with your large battery bank. Others might not. Batteries can be dangerous, and it is well worth being aware of that fact.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote swoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 October 2015 at 9:58am
Again thanks for all the advice.

Peter Jan how would you suggest being able to drive a vehicle while connected to a generator? I cannot have it inside the vehicle due to the emissions as the vehicle will also be my home. I cannot have it on a toe-bar at the back as the sound system is playing out the rear doors and that is where the audience will be standing. The only way I can think is if I attached it to the roof? But that calls for some health and safety and makes it rather difficult to access. I would be interested in hearing other ways to do it.

Phil B, firstly I looked through your whole project it looks great well done love they system! Your way is my ideal one but like Slaz said I currently have next to no experience working with batteries and would need to learn all about them to be able to pull it off (I am trying to teach myself!) Am I right in thinking via your way I just need a load of batteries connected to an inverter to get DC power to AC power which can then run into my power distro? And that I can charge my batteries by another power source but you charge yours via sunlight and wind? (I rate that alot btw)

Ganon I am looking alot into powering it by class D amps. Is there a reason that you said to power the THAMs with a Bass Face DB1.2 (which gives me 700w @ 4ohm) over the Bass Face  DB1.3 (which would give me 1000w @ 4ohm)? I am then thinking have 2 Bass Face DB2.2, which give 2x500w @4ohm so in total I will have 4x500w which I will run to the 8 15" (kicks) in the Xtros which will be paralleled in pairs giving each driver 250w (which is 1/2 of their 500w rms). Then I will use a Bass Face DB4.1 (or did you mention the Pioneer for a reason?) which bridged gives 2x400w RMS @4ohm. I will run each channel to the 8" 200w rms linked in parallel pairs meaning I can power them at their RMS value. Finally I will use the Bass Face DB2.1 which gives 2x 125w @4ohms to power my 50w RMS compressions, meaning on each side I will have 25w headroom over their RMS value. Do you think this is a good plan/will work?

In total I will have 
-2x Bass Face DB1.3 (BASS)  
-2x Bass Face DB2.2 (KICK/LOW MIDS)
-1x Bass Face DB4.1 (MIDS)
-1x Bass Face DB2.1 (TOPS)
What batteries would I need to power all this for a night? 

Sam V, unfortunately with the music I play there is no chance I can pass at 60hz. And the audience size will constantly be changing but sometimes I like to really blast it so don't plan on scaling the system down any more than I have.




Edited by swoo - 08 October 2015 at 10:23am
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