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How would one mic' this lot up ?

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_djk_ View Drop Down
Old Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote _djk_ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2012 at 10:24am
Crown PZM, one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote OllieMan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2012 at 12:37pm
C'mon guys! basic's first....

Don't have the PA so close to the stage.... meaning much more gain on console preamps before howling occurs.

With problem instruments i normally always use dynamic mics.... again much more gain before feed back so better for monitoring.
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Abe The Babe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abe The Babe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2012 at 2:35pm
gain on console preamps  has nothing to do with feedback, unless they are clipping. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_feedback 

The original also never mentioned feedback. 

Dynamics giving more gain before feedback than condensers is not actually true either. If any two mics are the same distance from the source, the mics with the most directionality at all frequencies will give the most level before feedback. What can effect this, especially with cheaper mics, is off axis frequency response. some mics seem to be more directional but they have one or several peaks in freq off axis. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevinmcdonough Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Abe The Babe Abe The Babe wrote:

gain on console preamps  has nothing to do with feedback, unless they are clipping. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_feedback 

The original also never mentioned feedback. 

Dynamics giving more gain before feedback than condensers is not actually true either. If any two mics are the same distance from the source, the mics with the most directionality at all frequencies will give the most level before feedback. What can effect this, especially with cheaper mics, is off axis frequency response. some mics seem to be more directional but they have one or several peaks in freq off axis. 



Well i'd disagree with both your points to be honest, although only in the interest of clearing up information for less experienced members as you rightly say the OP never mentioned feedback and so don't wanna sidetrack the thread with it too much.

Ollie is correct that having the mic further back from the PA (whether by moving the mic back or the PA forward) means you have a little more headroom and can turn the gain up a bit more before hitting the point where the mic can hear itself coming out of the PA and starts to feedback.

And while what you say about mics and off axis response is technically true, experience has also born out that by picking up a smaller range of frequencies, dynamics in the budget to middle range are a touch better at rejecting feedback simply because they don't pick up as many frequencies to feedback. As mics get more expensive and better quality the distinction becomes far less.

Even though as you say the OP didn't mention feedback I would assume the reason Ollie has brought it up was because the large amount of open mics we are suggesting using here, all very close together and all at differing gains depending on the instrument, will be hard enough without having to worry about feedback as well so anything done to minimise this would be a huge bonus.

k






Edited by kevinmcdonough - 25 November 2012 at 4:21pm
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Abe The Babe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Abe The Babe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2012 at 6:11pm
Originally posted by kevinmcdonough kevinmcdonough wrote:

Originally posted by Abe The Babe Abe The Babe wrote:

gain on console preamps  has nothing to do with feedback, unless they are clipping. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_feedback 

The original also never mentioned feedback. 

Dynamics giving more gain before feedback than condensers is not actually true either. If any two mics are the same distance from the source, the mics with the most directionality at all frequencies will give the most level before feedback. What can effect this, especially with cheaper mics, is off axis frequency response. some mics seem to be more directional but they have one or several peaks in freq off axis. 



Well i'd disagree with both your points to be honest, although only in the interest of clearing up information for less experienced members as you rightly say the OP never mentioned feedback and so don't wanna sidetrack the thread with it too much.

Ollie is correct that having the mic further back from the PA (whether by moving the mic back or the PA forward) means you have a little more headroom and can turn the gain up a bit more before hitting the point where the mic can hear itself coming out of the PA and starts to feedback.

And while what you say about mics and off axis response is technically true, experience has also born out that by picking up a smaller range of frequencies, dynamics in the budget to middle range are a touch better at rejecting feedback simply because they don't pick up as many frequencies to feedback. As mics get more expensive and better quality the distinction becomes far less.

Even though as you say the OP didn't mention feedback I would assume the reason Ollie has brought it up was because the large amount of open mics we are suggesting using here, all very close together and all at differing gains depending on the instrument, will be hard enough without having to worry about feedback as well so anything done to minimise this would be a huge bonus.

k





I probably should have expanded on what I meant by "gain on console preamps  has nothing to do with feedback, unless they are clipping." 

Feedback is nothing to do with gain from a particular gain stage but it is related to the output level from that channel. ie you can wind the preamp till the input is 2db from clipping and turn the master of the desk, amplifying that signal to 100dbspl out of the speaker at 1m or you can run a low level out of the pre, boost at the channel fader, boost at the master, boost at the amp, send out the same 100dbspl at 1m and it will make no difference to feedback. 

I understand what you are saying about the extended freq response though I don't normally find it an issue as most things get high passed, so the low freq response extension is more dependant on the mixing than the mic for me. I rarely find high freq extension a problem for feedback, speakers and mics are more directional and I rarely see any problems with feedback over 14khz. Obviously your miles may vary on that. 


Edited by Abe The Babe - 25 November 2012 at 6:31pm
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