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Jah Tubby preamp mods continued

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russ d View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russ d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2008 at 10:10pm

the thing is the way your putting it is like the jts pre-amp sounds absolute crap, yet many of us that have used them, and many of the people that come to dances, hear it sounding perfectly fine, and they have satisfied sound systems and dances over the last 3 decades... also, your only talking about a jts pre-amp, you have not evaluated any others to put it into context, for all you know mostec, links, lincoln, destructor, barracuda, metro etc all might come with the same spec and plot `inadequacies`, and if so then it means that the jts sits amongst its peers quite satisfactory, and you can bet your life none of them are made with any better components... so if then all of these pre-amps would sound bad, by your opinion, then surely the sound system world would`ve flopped many years ago... i can agree that there is no problem in trying to forward things, but your words need to be put into context... if no pre-amp out there is of any worth then can YOU supply the world with what you would consider decent pre-amps, are you going to go into manufacture and turn things around, will you be able to modify every existing pre-amp to come up to your level of acceptance ?... i think not, and as such people should know and understand, that the pre-amps out there, jts included, can do the job they`re made for when used right... if any `sound man` out there cant get a decent sound going with this gear then i`d say they really need to take more time to learn their art !

btw, jts dont want his pre-amp runnin flat response, who runs a flat response sound system ?...that would sound dull and flimsy and weak as dishwater, we want BASS, we want the system slashing the tops of our heads off, thats the vibe, not some safe pa sound bizness, thats for disco`s and bands, when you ever go see a band and it drops like a sound system...never... and thats why we love sound system... gimme the vibes of shaka`s ol` sound, distorting and rumblin` away, shaking down the walls of jericho, no place for a weakheart... if you wanna bring jah into it, thats JAH vibes !

anyways, dont take offence, nothing is meant so, keep on doing what your doing, but just make sure its all in context.
 
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Joseph Redhemption View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joseph Redhemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 11:03am
Raspect Russ

Blessed be the one that shows you things you know already under a different aspect/angle.

I should perhaps be more political correct and say that the components aren't the best suited for their intended applications and jah bless sound come out of the box.
But I'm not of this kind.
You say that since 3 decades these preamps are fine. Maybe in UK.
Here in Switzerland all of those I know who have a JTS pre are NOT SATISFIED. All those I know having a mostek don't complain at all. Perhaps mostek are easier to use or are of better quality. I never got one in hand so I cant say.

About the frequency response measured at the tape out there is a real problem. The bass out is only capable of max one octave  at a time instead of a theoric two and a half octave. This is due to the parametric bass who is set too sharp and this results (not always) in a one note bass line. For shure I want a boost in the bass but I don't one of this kind.

So now to the good points of the JTS :

It is complete - Phono, line, mics, fx send return, eq, parametric mids and crossover.
The parametric mids is really good and usefull to spice it up.
Its a simple design easy to repair.
Acording to the tree point above the price is correct.

Bad points of the JTS :
The sound is not great ( very personal )
Its only one chanel ( you have to choose if you want to listen to the right or left channel of your records )
The tendencie to hear a one note bassline.

And about you're question if I gonna supply the world with quality pre? Perhaps in a near future and until then I will modify/upgrade every pre that people give me. I have already 6 on the waiting list.

One love


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russ d View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote russ d Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 12:21pm

without disrespect to any of the swiss sounds, how long has switzerland been in the sound system business ?...  sound has been in the uk since the 60`s, it has a long tradition, if we here are satisfied with it then who`s to say what... yeah things can always be bettered, even with the jts pre the design and component use has`nt remained static in all the years, but its remained at a level that works for its intended use... if the swiss sounds want perfection then ok go look for something else, its thier choice, i will still stand and say that the jts pre can do a perfectly good job....

when i had my sound system i used an old early 80`s barracuda pre, i can tell you IT had its own sound, i`ve played a later 90`s barracuda and its different but still does its intended job, when i go play some club pa i usually take my little mini mostec, it does its job, i`ve used his bigger pre-amps only a couple of times, they also do thier job, i have used a lincoln pre-amp, its over complex but when understood it too can do a job, and i have used on many, many occasions both 3 way and 4 way jts pre-amps, and never had a problem with them either, they all have different characteristics, and of course all have to be learnt and understood...(i`ve had many studio mixers over the years and its exactly the same with them too)... on each and every occasion i treat each pre-amp the same, use as little eq as is neccesary, and balance using the bass/mid/tops controls, in the end i use my ears to get the sound i want, i will not say its THE perfect sound, but its the sound that will suit me, most times it also works for the dance...
 
your point about the jts pre-amp being mono, all the makes are, and its VERY easy to use a stereo to mono adaptor for any stereo attached gear, no one side missing !..if people cant figure that one out then its back to school !...but, the newer 4 way jts pre does come with `stereo` phono`s for decks and cd (albeit internally linked, which does the exact same job as the mentioned adaptor), so no more confusion !
 
well, good luck with all the conversions, i`ve probably sold about 20 - 30 jts pre`s over the years, and i know tubby has probably sold 10x + in that time, jah knows what before, so maybe that`ll keep you busy... in the meantime jts will keep supplying as is, so no worries for your future work !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jhodas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 2:22pm
@ Joseph.

I appreciate what you're trying to do. I've hear some members on this forum describe what goes on in a preamp as 'witchcraft', so furthering understanding of what to some is an  unknown quantity can only be a good thing.

I am curious to know how the Tubbs preamp sits in comparison to others. (Mskeete?)

At the end of the day though, taking a plot of a preamp is like simulating a scoop. It's only going to tell you half the story (if that!). But then Soundsystems have always been something of a paradox.

Scoops shouldnt work, but only one top sound doesnt use them.

Piezo boxes are a techicians nightmare, but again, only a very few sounds don't use them.

The preamp is just another link in the chain of things that really shouldn't work, but just do.


Until the Lions have their own historians, tales of hunting will always glorify the hunter.
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Masai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 3:28pm
Bloodfire!

Seems like there is a bit of Tubbys bashing going on here!

Will reply when I've got more time........
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Simeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 4:50pm

Joseph, i'm not dissing what you are doing, i think it is great that people have ambition to do such things, but like Russ has said, it is the way you are making your points. As this topic has gone on, there have been some very slack comments made that have been pretty slaunderous. A lot of diss-respect. 

I dont think any teachings place science to be this important, dont forget that science ammounts to a religion of it's own, coming on like a false prophet and idol bizness! The way the human ear works and how it is works with the brain is more siginificant to the way we appreciate hearing music than any piece of equipment, so lets not go too far with what is right or wrong at the mechanical stage. We are dealing with music of expression, that it was the music is about.

If you met tubbs and talked you would know that he knew much of the same as you, but with a whole lot more applied knowledge through the times. He tests equipment for big manufacturers, tests specs on loads of equipment, just the same as you, for the interest/love of the subject.
 
The bottom line is; there is not a definite science to sound, i know you are taking it like there is, but the brain does not come with a same plan as your charts. 
 
I think everyone is excited to hear your new pre's, i look forward to hearing one in the UK, alongside others.
 
On another note........

Masai... was that your pre Aba was warming up with yesterday...?   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joseph Redhemption Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 6:01pm
King Simeon
Please show me what is diss-respect full in my posts. I just read them again and found no dissrespect in any way. I said that he sell preamps overpriced, some components inside are not made for audio and I dont like the sound.
Sorry if you felt slack comments, to my excuse english is not my mother tongue so perhaps my ideas and opinions go straight to the point.
And for shure there is no exact science for good sound but there are rules that you cannot deny like ceramic capacitors are not made for audio signals or electrolytic caps used as blocking caps with audio signals,...
Finaly I totaly agree that we are dealing with music of expressionTongueCryConfusedThumbs UpThumbs Down but here its a talk about the technical side of reproducing music and the price we are ready to pay for a certain quality of reproduction and nothing more.
Thanks for your posts, one more time you showed me what I already knew with a different angle. Rastafari


Russ
If you connect thru an adaptor the two channel of the TT to an phono input you will loose bass and it will sound edgy. This is because you parralel the cartridge coils impedance thus dividing it by two and so the load impedance will be to high. Same apply to load capacitance.
This is not a rule for every cartridge (coils impedance vary from 500ohms to 5kohms) so try before ( but it will have an incidence with every cartridge and in the worst case you will have a heavy boost of 5-10db around 13Khz to 20Khz).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote King Simeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 7:12pm

It's cool. You have been very specific with your topic, i totally respect what you have written. I am also greatful you speak English so well, so that we can engage in the subject. We English are the nation who struggle with language abroad!!LOL

I did not say you had been dissrispectful, i mentioned that during this topic some people had. I don't mention names. From the early days of sound things have changed, people trying new things, even people doing old things, but calling it new!! It is all part of the music/culture. No one is trying to stop any development... the more the better, new music, new presentation, new was of playing and expressing it is vital.

I just dont like topics when they don't stay positive to the point of the subject. A couple of us made points to make sure this section is the Roots & Culture section, not just part of the technical Speakerplans site. The two should work together.
 
Rspx for the news. Keep us all updated... you've created a good interest now!!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matthias Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2008 at 7:54pm
i want to say that i dont like too clinical soundsystems too, i love it to hear different sounds from different systems.

I also do measurements with my ears, and when i hear no lowmids then something is missing for me ( personally ) also from my own experience in playing out it is a very important freq. range

I am sure that there are people around which can make it sound good ( not as good as it would be a flat response ), but i dont understand why not build a flat preamp ? It is exactly the same unit, with lots of fun playing on it, and you can also eq it like this response... BUT you could have a nice round bassline ( why so sharp "parametrics" )where you hear every note AND you feel it in the chest too...   i know a builder which builds flat pres with audio suited components and this is a 100% improvement . You can also eq what you want and get your own sound ....

For me personally, a Roots soundsystem should be always a progress and has forward vibes to me, i cant see why it is bad to improve things and bring them to a better level. As mykey said, it is not only the preamp, it is in fact the speakers and they want the food what they are made for. If you like to eq the lowmids out, then do it, it would be all possible, if you want to boost 5k 12db then do it ( i bet many would not do it :)

It would not affect the vibes i believe ! I also respect the traditional character and the people which go for jts, but i am missing the progress a little bit and many people just go for equipment which has a big name. No offense from my side to jts and i totally respect his works, even i still find the pre is overpriced for this performance. I am always up to pay people for their works and like small shops and people which go another way then the rest of the audio industry, but this is too much.

Respect

Respect
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Masai View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Masai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 November 2008 at 11:46am
All me can say is WOW!!!

As that ragga tune went 'me can't believe me eye!!!'

There seems to be a case of the blind leading the blind, here.......

NO DISRESPECT INTENDED TO ONES AND ONES!!!!

I'm writting a loooooong post to all of the above.

As a good idren of mine use to say, when he was on radio..........

'Soon come a road'Wink

Simeon - No bless - it's not my pre. Maybe it's a new JTS unit.......
Don't worry, I've got some designs on the drawing board. You know what I'm gonna say...... 'soon come a road'Wink

By the way, I used to post under the name of Othello. I wanted to do all my Geordie Le Forge/ Panthro posts under that name, and all the non tech stuff under Masai.

Can't get back to that account, and can't be bothered to be honest.

Oh yeah, this is the 'Roots and Culture Forum' on a technical website! Where else are we to discuss the science and art, of sound system culture? Think about it.....
Blood and Fire for non tech discussions, Speakerplans for all the techie stuff. Obviously this is not the law, as both have crossed over - which is good.

Got runnings to do, but keep the posts coming. I post up my novel soonWinkLOLEmbarrassedSmile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mskeete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2008 at 2:13am
Originally posted by Masai Masai wrote:


By the way, I used to post under the name of Othello.
 
had a feeling it was you but wasn't 100% sure
Looking forward to your comments (I hope)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 November 2008 at 3:11am
the chicken or the egg?
 
when I was A yut dem, sound systems were very bad, cabinets were made from chipboard and the rattling was super annoying, you could NOT enjoy the tunes
 
Now you can't tell me that all the people at those dances liked that, they would have wanted EFFORTLESS warm bass coming at them, with HIFI tops
 
Now! at a very young age (14) I started out to try and help with this problem of cabs rattling, I started to build cabs that were strong. IMPROVEMENT
 
also lets look at piezo's, were they there because they were nice and cheap, or was it the sound of them?
 
then all of a sudden, people started using JBL & celestion bullets. IMPROVEMENT 
 
I saw back in the day , everyone upgrade to ASS kit. IMPROVEMENT
 
now, if you read through what has been said, you are saying that it's an authentic sound you want to keep?
 
so why don't we go back to the begining?  amplifiers in biscuit tins, chipboard scoops, and piezos?
 
why go and spend BMW money on a sound system then put a pre on it? 
 
if you want this, i vcan build some scoop with the rear baffle machined out to 21mm and use a 18mm rear baffle board with no glue, this will sound very authentic, but NO IMPROVEMENT
 
can I have a FLAT response PRE please to put on a BMW costing sound system please?
 
Another thing, all my matesDads back in the day had PROPER amplifiers and beautiful HIFI and pre-amps on some lovely Tannoys, so they could listen to their lovely reggae
 
not a piezo in sight, only lots of lace doilies on sofas


Edited by mykey - 24 November 2008 at 6:08am
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