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abrupt View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote abrupt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: labs
    Posted: 21 November 2007 at 11:05am
are labs the best subs you can build
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tallmike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2007 at 11:17am
errr...
 
There is no such thing as the 'best subs you can build', as audio applications have many different requirements.
 
Are Labs the best subs for putting in the back of your car? No.
 
Are Labs the best horn loaded double 12"? Maybe.
 
Are Labs the best touring sub? I very much doubt it.
 
But they're very good subwoofers, and they're a design worth looking at if you have good carpentry skills, a lot of plywood, decent amount of patience and want some lovely bass!
 
- Mike
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biotec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2007 at 12:23pm
I've certainly never heard such defined pummelling sub from another cab. There are other hornload cabs out there that may be as loud.
 
Another cab to look at is the big bertha double 18inch EAW w-bin with barn door horn extension. Built in singles it would be easier to carry and will certainly give a lab horn a run for its money. The 18s will be under stress though and may impart more distortion
 
I would hazard a guess that the new bassmaxx cabs, the trip 3 I think it's called, would come out favourably against a lab horn, but then again they have an extra driver and are considerably bigger. By all reports the bassmaxx cabs put out trully astonishing amounts of sub. They are not a free design though and will be expensive to import.
 
If you want to keep excessive size down, the double 18 bandpass cabs will do loud sub but they don't sound as impressive as the horn loaded monsters mentioned above IMO. The D&B B2 and the FK1 infra are designs to look at. Both will be very driver sensitive though and the B2 needs a fair ammount of processing before it makes sense.


Edited by biotec - 21 November 2007 at 12:24pm
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tallmike View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tallmike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2007 at 10:33pm
... and the EM Acoustics MSE-118 Quake Subwoofer, which in my opinion outperforms a LAB Sub......
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote levyte357 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 November 2007 at 11:48pm
abrupt, PM me regarding your Supers.
"Who am I? I'm the guy who does his job.. You must be the other guy".
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biotec View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote biotec Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2007 at 9:20am
the Quake is another good one that I missed, but not a DIY project.
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minaximal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minaximal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 November 2007 at 11:31am
the em acoustics quake, and noise control wmd, are probably the best uk contenders, (but not diy) but both have either an excessively small mouth or too short path length for claimed smooth freq response.. and cost between £2000-£3000 each! ouch

i know a good proper sized contender thoughWink
Subs + Barges = :)

www.metaacoustics.com

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikewheeler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2007 at 9:34pm
Just to point out mate, the published frequency response on a Quake, as stated on the datasheet, is for four enclosures together....where the mouth area & path length are correct for the published response...you are right that the response of a single enclosure on it's own will not be as smooth as the response plot published.

Cheers,

Mike
Mike Wheeler
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EM Acoustics Loudspeakers
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minaximal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote minaximal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2007 at 3:30am
hi mike,

i have not seen any frequency plots for the quake, only seen the web specs. and done some head calcs of the small mouth size and 9' pathlength, which with four cabs and a f3 of 27hz is impressive as they are still not a full quarter wave size, i would assume to help get closer to this  the cabs see the front panel above mouth opening help to create a boundary affect, or quasi pathlength extension, to try and avoid too bad a ski jump freq response down to 27hz.

i would imagine they are excursion limited at full power at 27hz or earlier. do they need a pinch of eq also?

i dont doubt they are a great design, but there always seem to be limitations when not using full quarter wave pathlengths and mouth sizes.

out of interest becuase your'e here, and it's always good to have discussion with active designers, perhaps you dont mind giving away a  little on how you see horn design (or it's variants), without giving away too much, that you may want to keep closer to home.

regards al
Subs + Barges = :)

www.metaacoustics.com

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mikewheeler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mikewheeler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 November 2007 at 8:16am
Hello mate,

I must be honest - I did not design the Quake, my colleague and our designer Ed Kinsella did, so I am not really the best person to ask!  Normally in use, with four we would put a steep slope high pass at 25Hz to enable full power usage (which is significantly more than the stated 800W RMS), but no, we don't ever use any EQ on them except in extreme circumstances...

I'll ask Ed if he's willing to release some info, and see what I can do!

Many thanks,

Mike


Mike Wheeler
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EM Acoustics Loudspeakers
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tb_mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2007 at 1:52am
Originally posted by minaximal minaximal wrote:

hi mike,

i have not seen any frequency plots for the quake, only seen the web specs. and done some head calcs of the small mouth size and 9' pathlength, which with four cabs and a f3 of 27hz is impressive as they are still not a full quarter wave size, i would assume to help get closer to this  the cabs see the front panel above mouth opening help to create a boundary affect, or quasi pathlength extension, to try and avoid too bad a ski jump freq response down to 27hz.

i would imagine they are excursion limited at full power at 27hz or earlier. do they need a pinch of eq also?

i dont doubt they are a great design, but there always seem to be limitations when not using full quarter wave pathlengths and mouth sizes.

out of interest becuase your'e here, and it's always good to have discussion with active designers, perhaps you dont mind giving away a  little on how you see horn design (or it's variants), without giving away too much, that you may want to keep closer to home.

regards al
Id expect the horn to be unloaded at ~27hz,so youd want to use a subsonic filter near 33hz.
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ceharden View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ceharden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 November 2007 at 2:14am
With a LR filter at 27Hz it'll be 6dB down at that frequency which might be enough to limit the excursion to a safe level.
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