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Limiting amplifier output via LMS

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njw View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote njw Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

OK

Without load of comedy maths that just never works, the EP1500 is pretty much exactly the right amp for the tops, so if that never clips you are golden.
HF out 0dB

The 15s and 10s will run from the same power (we used SR707s for both, a 707 is about 2.6 dB lower than a TSA 4-1300, so pull 3dB out for Mid and kik.

Let the subs have what ever you've got, so 0dB gain there.

so 

Sub 30-100Hx LR-24 @ 0dB
15s 80-250Hz LR-24 @-3dB
10s 250-5K3Hz LR 24@-3dB
1s 3K15 >air LR-24 @0dB

then use a limiter on the INPUT to make sure the top amp doesn't clip!!!!

Output limiters are for idiot that want a shit sound!

Also make sure your subs run from the mono sum bus....


 

 And once again Shaggers speaks sense..... 


Edited by njw - 20 May 2017 at 11:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Futendra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by shagnasty shagnasty wrote:

OK

Without load of comedy maths that just never works, the EP1500 is pretty much exactly the right amp for the tops, so if that never clips you are golden.
HF out 0dB

The 15s and 10s will run from the same power (we used SR707s for both, a 707 is about 2.6 dB lower than a TSA 4-1300, so pull 3dB out for Mid and kik.

Let the subs have what ever you've got, so 0dB gain there.

so 

Sub 30-100Hx LR-24 @ 0dB
15s 80-250Hz LR-24 @-3dB
10s 250-5K3Hz LR 24@-3dB
1s 3K15 >air LR-24 @0dB

then use a limiter on the INPUT to make sure the top amp doesn't clip!!!!

Output limiters are for idiot that want a shit sound!

Also make sure your subs run from the mono sum bus....



How do I limit input on multiple crossover points on the DCX?
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Conanski View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2017 at 11:52pm
Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

How do I limit input on multiple crossover points on the DCX?
You can't.. there is no input limiter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Futendra Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:24am
Originally posted by Conanski Conanski wrote:

Originally posted by Futendra Futendra wrote:

How do I limit input on multiple crossover points on the DCX?
You can't.. there is no input limiter.

So now what?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:29am
DPR-402 in front of the DCX would be an input limiter...
Live by the MultiPin, Die by the MultiPin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Conanski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 12:58am
You're running this rig yourself correct, if you can manage to keep the levels in a sensible range then you don't need anything extra and the limiters will do exactly what they are supposed to do.. prevent accidents.


Edited by Conanski - 21 May 2017 at 12:58am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 3:42am
The problem is that output limiting will 'remix' the balance of the system.

Signal gets pushed too hard>>>
one frequency band gets limited (usually the sub or bass)>>>
limiting makes the rest of the system appear louder as the signal gets pushed hard whilst raising the RMS energy of the limited band>>>
signal gets pushed EVEN HARDER because it's sounding a bit shit and louder = better if you're the kind of cocksnorkler that pushes into limiting>>>
drivers get blown/amps get cooked/gig gets ruined

OR

Get your gain structure right on the outputs and limit your inputs>>>
Signal gets pushed into limiting>>>
Frequency that's causing limiting makes the entire system limit>>>
System retains balance. 'Hold' on the limiter causes entire system to duck down for a few seconds as the limiter starts pumping against the peaks. It'll be obvious what's happening>>>
Visit to the spunktrumpet behind the decks introducing him to a cricket bat>>>
Night continues, job done, no expensive recones.
Live by the MultiPin, Die by the MultiPin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoadRunnersDust Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 3:42am
TL;DR
Limiters cause destruction. Don't use them. Don't take your system out into the wild because you'll get pregnant and die. The end.

Edited by RoadRunnersDust - 21 May 2017 at 3:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shagnasty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2017 at 5:00am
Originally posted by RoadRunnersDust RoadRunnersDust wrote:

The problem is that output limiting will 'remix' the balance of the system.

Signal gets pushed too hard>>>
one frequency band gets limited (usually the sub or bass)>>>
limiting makes the rest of the system appear louder as the signal gets pushed hard whilst raising the RMS energy of the limited band>>>
signal gets pushed EVEN HARDER because it's sounding a bit shit and louder = better if you're the kind of cocksnorkler that pushes into limiting>>>
drivers get blown/amps get cooked/gig gets ruined

OR

Get your gain structure right on the outputs and limit your inputs>>>
Signal gets pushed into limiting>>>
Frequency that's causing limiting makes the entire system limit>>>
System retains balance. 'Hold' on the limiter causes entire system to duck down for a few seconds as the limiter starts pumping against the peaks. It'll be obvious what's happening>>>
Visit to the spunktrumpet behind the decks introducing him to a cricket bat>>>
Night continues, job done, no expensive recones.

Pretty much that is it, either out limit, risk appalling Audio Quality and have moronic sense of complacency that will even leave you surprised when your rig is in tatters...

OR

Set up correctly and get a washable Cricket Bat!!!!

If you can't afford a BSS 402 then you have the option of using a Digital in which kinda makes limiters obsolete, even crap box Pioneer Multi-channel distortion pedals (DJM series) offer SDIF out that will direct drive the AES/EBU of a DCX... 
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