line array projects

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   Ha Ha Ha, .... thank you verry much  Marjan !!! You can help me more in that way ... :)

if you read carefully, my first post,   you would understand that I never wanted to build a line array system. I made a PA system "inspired" from LA Sys.  Is a hybrid system, scalable, which can be used for an audience of up to 600 people. I am pleased to inform you that it works excellent! (except variant vertical tweeter course).  Must tell you that I have built subwoofers too, and the whole system  benefits from DSP and class D power amplifiers. When the final tests will be done, I will return with information and pics.

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Catabo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 15 August 2013 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Catabo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2013 at 2:39pm
	Ha Ha Ha, .... thank you verry much Marjan !!! You can help me more in that way ... :) if you read carefully, my first post, you would understand that I never wanted to build a line array system. I made a PA system "inspired" from LA Sys. Is a hybrid system, scalable, which can be used for an audience of up to 600 people. I am pleased to inform you that it works excellent! (except variant vertical tweeter course). Must tell you that I have built subwoofers too, and the whole system benefits from DSP and class D power amplifiers. When the final tests will be done, I will return with information and pics.

MarjanM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarjanM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2013 at 3:57pm
	It might sound good in one point of the audience. But it will not work as line array and it will have massive combfiltering in the vertical axis. So it is not line array. Second thing is that APT150 can not be crossed low enough even if you did the HF section right with a proper line array wave guide. So the box is totally wrong. With the tons of online information about line array and how they work i still find my self amused with this kind of diy work.
	Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713

all bass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855	Post Options Post Reply Quote all bass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2013 at 4:06pm
	Catabo, If you want the high frequency elements to acoustically couple you need to get the center to center spacing of the drivers much closer. If you must use piezo's for budget reasons why don't you have a look at Bill F's idea with melded piezo arrays. But the problems with the crossover frequency will remain as piezo's will need to be crossed fairly high compared to good CD drivers.

all bass Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 11 October 2012 Location: the Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 1855	Post Options Post Reply Quote all bass Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2013 at 4:20pm
	Something like this. Should be pretty cheap to build with some Monacor MPT-016 or equivalent tweeters.

MarjanM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarjanM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 18 August 2013 at 5:27pm
	Piezo can not go low enough either. Need to be at about 1Khz.
	Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713

Catabo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 15 August 2013 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Catabo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2013 at 10:55am
	You are right, I will use PSD2002, and I will build plywood waveguide. Now looking for model. Thank you very much! I appreciate your help ! Catalin.

MarjanM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarjanM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2013 at 10:59am
	Dont do that! PSD2002 is the biggest shit of cd driver made ever. Remember one thing, line arrays and cheap drivers dong go along. As i have said you need a driver that can go down to 1KHz. And you need a line array wave guide, not those horns.
	Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713

Catabo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 15 August 2013 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Catabo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2013 at 11:11am
	Okay, what driver do you recommend me? I find that wawe guide for line array http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/PH-CL35.pdf - http://www.paudiothailand.com/pdf/products/PH-CL35.pdf but, not imported in Romania Thank you with consideration Catalin.

MarjanM Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 10 February 2005 Location: Macedonia Status: Offline Points: 7816	Post Options Post Reply Quote MarjanM Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 19 August 2013 at 11:34am
	Talk with Mircea Bartic here on the forum about Paudio.
	Marjan Milosevic MM-Acoustics www.mm-acoustics.com https://www.facebook.com/pages/MM-Acoustics/608901282527713

thepersonunknown Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 November 2009 Location: Madrid Status: Offline Points: 1628	Post Options Post Reply Quote thepersonunknown Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 August 2013 at 4:38pm
	You can use a 2inch comp to get down low and then something like one of thoes cheep tweeter arrays on the top end. It wouldn't be the only design (pro design) based on this principle. Dear o dear, it looks like the idea of a line array needing more coñplex processing than a standard horn loaded point system has stuck. Marjam, I blame u. Just as a matter of fact, to the op (nice work on the complete system there, I always thought the rigging would be the most complex/expensive thing to do). What sort of processing do u use on ur array mate? I don't mean exact parameters, but do u process all the boxes in the array in the same way?
	They keep telling me life is short, but its the longest thing ive ever done!!!

Catabo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List New Member Joined: 15 August 2013 Location: Romania Status: Offline Points: 8	Post Options Post Reply Quote Catabo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 August 2013 at 7:43pm
	Well ... @ personunknown Thank's alot. Now i wanna make correction ... Now try to get closer and closer to the line array. Supplement the budget and purchase wawe guide from P-Audio PHCL35 and driver SD-63BF. By the way ... initialy i desing the whole system to be manged by one DCX 2496 from Bery, and 3 Power Amp , D-class, from low, medium and high, separatedly shure. In the same box, will be two spek-on connectors from two power amps, medium and high. I build subs too. One for each column, based on RCF - LF15G401. Do you think I need processing the HF dirvers separatedly? I have 6 top ellements for one column. I really appreciate your help ! Catalin.

thepersonunknown Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 25 November 2009 Location: Madrid Status: Offline Points: 1628	Post Options Post Reply Quote thepersonunknown Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 August 2013 at 9:06pm
	If u want to use a 2 inch comp and then rely on the smaller tweeter type things for the highs then its going to be basicly impossible to make it only 2 way. It will have to be 3 way, and u will need to time align between the different sections. I don't know, on second thoughts u coult use passive filters on the lows (a 12 or 15 inch driver with some kinda acoutic cententer separation ie, a baffel with 2 slots in front of each driver nexo/vertec style) then u could send a full range signal down one line to these 2 bands and then process the signal to the 2 inch comp in a way that it fits and send that down the other line. That's a bit unconventional, and the best thing would be to go 3 or 4 way from the start (like the I4) cos although the tweeters and the LF cone driver will be easy to phisicaly time align, it all sounds a bit jerry rig even to me who is saying it. I think the p audio waveguides are a bit crap, but that's just what they tell me. I think the problem is more in the very high frequency, so I guess u could realisticly mate it to one of thoes tweeter arrays. You must remember though, this will only ever be something which looks like a line array, at best, and I think u need to read a lot more before spending any more money.
	They keep telling me life is short, but its the longest thing ive ever done!!!