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concept-10 View Drop Down
Young Croc
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote concept-10 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 6:09am
You gotta love SP, cheered me up no end this morning 😂

Edited by concept-10 - 16 June 2017 at 6:10am
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Harvy-S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harvy-S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 8:53am
Thanks for the info guys. What I was looking for was a boost for the top end and to cut some of the horrible mid bass down. I've bought the xta and will be programming it soon. I'll let you know how I get on. If that fails I can always spend £15k on the RCF TT series!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finjby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 10:07am
Cool,  so it is an EQ issue then.   The xta will serve you well.

You mentioned you have four subs and four tops, so if you deploy them as a stereo system you are probably experiencing low frequency build up.
 As the preset EQ is likely to be programmed for one of each cabinet per side, by you doubling that, the radiating surface increases and all the low freq couples - giving more output in the lower mid area (and the sub - but I guess you want to keep that Wink).
The top end you mention could also be perceived as needing correction if you have overlap of both horns.  Remember - comb filters cannot be corrected by EQ!  Splay your tops to avoid the interference between them, or just use one top and two subs per side?

Im not dismissing using a loudspeaker processor on a powered system, the big-boys use them (Lake etc.) for things like grouping EQ for array shading, time alignment, sub arrays and all-pass filters for main and side hang coupling for example.   
No one I know uses yet another set of HPF/LPF filters to feed a powered system, as electronically the work is already done.
Just feed the boxes with full range outputs from the xta, and utilize the parametric EQ on the inputs as a master EQ,  and you now have the ability to mute your boxes individually and set new limiters if needed.
The only down side is yet another AD/DA conversion, and the added latency - resulting in your rig being acoustically pushed back a few feet.

But unless you know your alignment procedures (www.rationalacoustics.com), then I wouldn't get fiddling with crossovers on a powered system.

Happy tweaking!
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Harvy-S View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harvy-S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 10:22am
Thanks Finjby that's a lot of info to take into consideration. If any of you guys are midlands based and would be able to tweak the system up let me know. Would be better to get one of you experts to do it I think.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Finjby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 11:01am
No worries Harvy,  
sorry for the overload of info! - I just wouldn't want you to invest in something (and use it incorrectly) to attempt to 'fix the crossovers'  they are not the problem here.
like I said, just use the xta as a master EQ to tweak out the freq's that are causing you issues,  don't be tempted to start overlaying/adding crossover filters on your outputs as you will be screwing with the acoustic alignment of the existing RCF's speaker filters.

What do you use your rig for? ie. what do you plug into it?  DJ mixer / band mixer etc.  
Sounds to me like you just need to apply a few parametric filters to give you the response you want.  The good thing with using your xta, is you can store different presets with varying eq to suit the spaces you play in regularly.

I am north midlands based if you really get stuck,  but read-up on the instructions first and get your head around the parametric filters, and have a play.
Boost a medium width input filter by say 6db, and sweep up and down the freq's and you will soon find the offending area,  then cut too taste and play around with the width of the filter to get the response you want.
Best of luck! 
...and glad we seemed to dodge the 'DCX vs. the world' debate relatively unscathed! Yin Yang


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 4D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 11:47am
And..

Imo

The big audible difference between the Xta dp series and the Dcx is the quality of the limiter. The dcx sounds like a snare drum the xta is almost transparent..

Edited by 4D - 16 June 2017 at 11:48am
DMZ. "The bass was intense. Girls were literally running up to stand next to the subs"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote matty w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 12:13pm
I could be wrong but lol pretty sure that rcf designed that sub to be used for various rcf tops so not really a tuned system in relation to the inbuilt crossover . Probably just a generic 24db lr high pass and low pass .

You could run the sub and tops from different outputs from the Dsp , the sub feed would just need a straight through ,no low pass from Dsp but with the tops, you could apply your own high pass filter and potentially acheive a more coherent crossover to the sub !

Black to black , red to red , blue to bits ....

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matty w View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 12:17pm
Anyway , enjoy mate you've purchased a decent quality Dsp that u one day may of wanted to upgrade to anyway
Black to black , red to red , blue to bits ....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pfly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by matty w matty w wrote:

I could be wrong but lol pretty sure that rcf designed that sub to be used for various rcf tops so not really a tuned system in relation to the inbuilt crossover . Probably just a generic 24db lr high pass and low pass .



If those different midtops are same product family and they are done right, they should share similar phase behaviour and would only need level adjustment when combined to the sub. At least as long as you are not trying to pair that family's biggest 15" midtop to smallest 8" sub... But you never know these things before trying yourself and preferably evaluating the situation by measuring.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty w Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 3:54pm
Yeah true , I hear what your saying , I personally think that's wishfull Thinking ,I'm sure it's true to a degree but there's allways room for improvement anyway haha :)
Black to black , red to red , blue to bits ....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harvy-S Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 4:56pm
Thanks for the help guys I've got an old Skool sound engineer who is going to tune it all up for me, but I need to find a venue to do it in. I'm mainly doing Asian weddings so using the 4 tops and 4 bins at most events. I use a pioneer dj controller either the RZ or Xdj rx depending on what I feel like using on the day. The controller feeds into an Allen and Heath xone 92 mixer before going to the sound system.

Edited by Harvy-S - 16 June 2017 at 5:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jo bg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 June 2017 at 5:30pm
Lucky you! Xta as  equalizer for powered speaker and xone 92 as DI for the dj controller Smile
well done you set the foundation of a serious sound if you are going  to expand your system, but on the short term are wedding clients really so concerned with the quality of your dsp?
xta is amongst the best and used in big clubs and events, my doubt is that with a simpler equalizer (and a little knowledge on how to tune a system) or processor you could have tamed that high frequency  and lo mid problem, and invest in lights drapes and all that stuff that a wedding couple would notice way more then you supa dupa lms.
i mean i would love an xta in my rig but i feel i've got a lo of things to improve before it make sense to have such a costly lms. then maybe you just got a 2 in 4 out for cheap and i am just talking nonsenseSmile
 
be careful if you stack xta crossovers on the inbuilt crossovers in the speakers, the resulting crossover frequency will shift, you have to measure the combined output, and summing two 24 db/octave crossover gives you a whopping 720 phase turn, something you'd like to avoid.
if you want to add crossovers to the existing one try to start with lower slopes/order.
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