Martin Audio F1 Rig

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Hey all, I have been given the chance to look at some old MA cabs and make an offer if i'm interested. 

2 x F1
2 x F1b

Cabs are a bit tatty and I know the F1b's need new drivers. 
I'm in the market for a small rig to do 300-400 capcity outdoor events (live bands) and this seemed to tick the boxes. The obvious question is, how much should I be looking to offer?

Cheers in advance

Jim

Edited by Jimmer - 31 March 2016 at 5:27pm

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Jimmer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 30 April 2010 Location: Stroud / Glos Status: Offline Points: 2604	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jimmer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Martin Audio F1 Rig Posted: 31 January 2011 at 7:41pm
	Hey all, I have been given the chance to look at some old MA cabs and make an offer if i'm interested. 2 x F1 2 x F1b Cabs are a bit tatty and I know the F1b's need new drivers. I'm in the market for a small rig to do 300-400 capcity outdoor events (live bands) and this seemed to tick the boxes. The obvious question is, how much should I be looking to offer? Cheers in advance Jim Edited by Jimmer - 31 March 2016 at 5:27pm
	http://connect-av.co.uk

james folkes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 08 January 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3064	Post Options Post Reply Quote james folkes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 January 2011 at 10:10pm
	are the tops in good nick? the midrange driver is quite specialised. the f1b are a really interesting cab, there was some discussion here of its operation with contribution from sven olsen, who worked at martin audio during this period. he thought it had a celestion in it. i believe it is kind of phase plugged, i'd love to see one inside... really top notch kit and certainly great for live bands, not sure if it would cover that number of people, but this depends on how loud you want it i guess. forum member robbo has much experience of that era of martin equipment and will hopefully be able to comment. if i got that lot for anything less than £800 i'd be pretty happy i think, as long as the tops are correctly loaded and working fine. that said i am a real martin fan so that could be high? they're very well made and will usually scrub up fine. the f1 compression driver requires a big eq tweak to tame a nasty resonance, but i have the cards for the martin mx4 system controller for f1 with delayed subs and hf eq, and i no longer use the eq card. james.
	mardy hippy.

Robbo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4297	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robbo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 January 2011 at 10:52pm
	Martin Audio F1 cabinets are real quality but I think you may struggle with just one F1B compact 18" per side---You could do with at least one pair a side as a single F1 mid/hi pack will comfortably keep up with 4x18" drivers----Not 100% sure but I think you will find that the F1B 18" drivers are RCF as well---Cheers--John.

Jimmer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 30 April 2010 Location: Stroud / Glos Status: Offline Points: 2604	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jimmer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 31 January 2011 at 11:35pm
	Cheers for the reply guys As far as I know the tops are standard and just need a nic of paint, the F1b's need new drivers or reconing the originals. He hasn't been running them with the Mx4 controller which i'm a bit skeptible about. However he's happy to run them up and let me have a good look over them. They've been in dry storage for a couple of years unused and he wants to shift them on, so is open to offers........Ive just got to get the right price!! If I go ahead with the purchase I will be looking to restore them to their former glory with a little help from you guys. (knowing what drivers to use will be the main prob) Do you know if the Eq and delay settings are available from martin? Have a DCX2496 that id like to use to get us up and running but will go down the MX4 route if there are benefits.

james folkes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 08 January 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3064	Post Options Post Reply Quote james folkes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 1:17am
	a dcx will be perfectly sufficient to do all the required processing, you might get the information from martin, it really depends on who answers the phone i think! people have got info on vrs settings and mx4 configurations recently - which are contemporary products to f1 and f2 - but they've never been able to answer any of my questions. crossover points are 220 and 1k5, as are all the cabs based around that 12" horn unit (inc f2 and vrs), i'm fairly sure the eq for the comp is mentioned somewhere in this forum by sven olsen, then you can use the auto align on the dcx for delays, so it's no problem even if martin can't help. so robbo concurs that you probably need more bottom end. this is the point where i tell you to buy the system, make careful measurements of the bass cabinets and then build yourself/have built between two and six more, pausing only to post the schematics and some nice internal photographs showing the compression chamber and throat arrangements for us all to see. please... james.
	mardy hippy.

james folkes Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 08 January 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3064	Post Options Post Reply Quote james folkes Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 1:21am
	oh yeah, the reason to use an mx4 would be a (subjective) improvement in audio quality. having compared mx4s and ultradrives i prefer the old analogue beauties, particularly at low volumes and when riding the limiters; the mx4 system controller is a really lovely crossover. james.
	mardy hippy.

Jimmer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 30 April 2010 Location: Stroud / Glos Status: Offline Points: 2604	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jimmer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 9:49am
	Thanks for the info James, very helpfull. I'm a big fan of Martin too although don't have much experience with this older kit. Found that thread you were on about where Sven Olson was posting, very interesting read. Sounds like the F1b's are very efficient cabs. Quote....."The impulse is quite staggering" But like you said the drivers are very specialised to both the 12" mid and the 18" bin so would want to make sure they are stock. Sounds like you can get a modern celestion equivilant 18" 4080? but might struggle to find the 12" mid driver if it turns out they're not stock. I know the guy thats selling them and he's pretty cool and laid back so might let me take photo's of inside of cabs, would anyone here be able to identify the drivers before I commit and spend too much? Agreed with the need for more bottom end, but he only has the two for sale. I will of course take extensive measurements and pictures for you all to see and make up my mind on whether to take the plunge into building some of my own *Edit....spelling Edited by Jimmer - 01 February 2011 at 11:29am

Robbo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4297	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robbo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 11:30am
	Jimmer---If you can get pics of the 18" chassis then I can probably tell you what it is----One thing to be very carefull of when buying any Martin Audio kit that either has or is supposed to have phase bungs on the 12" section is to firstly make sure that the phase bungs are actually there fitted to the baffle as a lot of people tend to remove them when they blow a driver and fit a Joe Bloggs replacement which fouls the bung and they remove the bung and either loose it or throw it away. The next thing to check is that it has the correct Martin Audio/ATC or RCF 12" driver fitted along with the correct dust cap in the cetre of the cone---The only way to check this is to remove the 12" mid driver from the baffle and then check to make sure that there is no damage to the dust cap---Damage can also be caused by over excursion when idiots have crossed over at below the specced frequency for the 12" mid driver and this will shown by a circular indentation on the dust cap where it has been hitting the phase bung---another very common thing is that the dust caps become loose or un glued from the drivers cone causing a fuzzy sound and some times are even missing but this is an easy fix to re-glue the dustcap back in place. The built in passive Xovers in the F1 mid/hi pack really are superb and because we have had many of these F1 F2 and VRS cabinets over the years we have compared many times using the cabinets on a DSP in active mode or using them in passive mode and the difference is very hard to tell so it can save you some weight off the third amp as you can run the system very nicely in two way mode----Hope this helps you and if you need any more info then just ask---Cheers--John.

Jimmer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 30 April 2010 Location: Stroud / Glos Status: Offline Points: 2604	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jimmer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 12:05pm
	Wow thanks John, great help. I'm just waiting on seeing them now, hopefully this weekend. Now I know what to look out for I feel more confident on what price to haggle. I will get as many pics as possible and grill him as to how he's been running them. In worst case senario can you still purchase the phase bungs? that could be the worth buying or not question! Fingers crossed on them really, sound like it could be a nice little system if its been looked after.

Jimmer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 30 April 2010 Location: Stroud / Glos Status: Offline Points: 2604	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jimmer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 12:07pm
	Just to say I will be running them on c-audio pulses, love the way they sound

Jimmer Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 30 April 2010 Location: Stroud / Glos Status: Offline Points: 2604	Post Options Post Reply Quote Jimmer Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 12:25pm
	Looking at the frequency charts on the manual, its say's the F1b's only run down to 50hz? how much lower do you think they go in multiples (maybe 2-3 a side), would be nice to achieve nearer the 40hz mark. or would you recomend placing a different sub underneath them? Edited by Jimmer - 01 February 2011 at 12:26pm

Robbo Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Old Croc Joined: 05 December 2005 Location: Shropshire Status: Offline Points: 4297	Post Options Post Reply Quote Robbo Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 01 February 2011 at 3:00pm
	Don't run the F1Bs on C Audio Pulse amps as they just will not do the business driving bass---Great for clean mid/hi work but useless for bass work. I would advise trying them before looking at ways to extend the LF response as they do give a real nice "kicky" type of bass similar to Turbosound folded horn bass cabinets and you could always add a front loaded ported reflex cabinet at a later date as long as you have the signal processing to be able to do this successfully.